Alltrac with st215 motor running rich.

From Tune Ups to Oil Changes, maintenance related

Moderator: toayoztan

Re: Alltrac with st215 motor running rich.

Postby zaluss » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:36 pm

UtahSleeper wrote:
Tecker184 wrote:Have you ruled out a leaky injector?


I haven't ruled it out, but I figured it was unlikely with the spark plugs all looking the same and with how rich it is. Could 1 leaky injector cause a estimated 10 to 15 mpg drop in fuel economy? I am not sure what to expected from behavior if you have a leaky injector.


I'm really starting to lean into wiring issue at this point. Have you reached out to Wiregap to see if anyone else is having this issue? I find it hard to believe that after swapping out the ECU, MAP, O2, etc that nothing has changed. The only consistent variable here is the wiring.

I didn't see it mentioned here but did you check the ignition timing?
Members don't see the above ad. Register now - it's free!
zaluss
Club Member
 
Posts: 350
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:41 pm
Location: Renton, WA

Re: Alltrac with st215 motor running rich.

Postby UtahSleeper » Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:27 pm

zaluss wrote:
UtahSleeper wrote:
Tecker184 wrote:Have you ruled out a leaky injector?


I haven't ruled it out, but I figured it was unlikely with the spark plugs all looking the same and with how rich it is. Could 1 leaky injector cause a estimated 10 to 15 mpg drop in fuel economy? I am not sure what to expected from behavior if you have a leaky injector.


I'm really starting to lean into wiring issue at this point. Have you reached out to Wiregap to see if anyone else is having this issue? I find it hard to believe that after swapping out the ECU, MAP, O2, etc that nothing has changed. The only consistent variable here is the wiring.

I didn't see it mentioned here but did you check the ignition timing?


I haven't checked it cause I don't have the stuff to check coil on plug. I have read up on what I will need to do, just hard to extend the coil pack out with a top mount intercooler lol. Torque shows it advancing quite a bit when running thought.
80 Corolla Hatchback - Power (In Progress) http://www.3tcgarage.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3208
88 Alltrac - Snow (Waiting for the garage) http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=43482

Cardomain - http://www.cardomain.com/id/chris52580
User avatar
UtahSleeper
Established Member
 
Posts: 1917
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Magna, UT

Re: Alltrac with st215 motor running rich.

Postby UtahSleeper » Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:30 pm

Also I have emailed Doug at wiregap to get some troubleshooting ideas. Just waiting for a response after my last email this morning.
80 Corolla Hatchback - Power (In Progress) http://www.3tcgarage.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3208
88 Alltrac - Snow (Waiting for the garage) http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=43482

Cardomain - http://www.cardomain.com/id/chris52580
User avatar
UtahSleeper
Established Member
 
Posts: 1917
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Magna, UT

Re: Alltrac with st215 motor running rich.

Postby UtahSleeper » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:32 pm

So, I kind of quit updating this here. I have slightly more up to date info here

http://www.mr2oc.com/6-mkii-90-99-na-turbo/611281-st215-motor-running-rich-2.html#post6456762

Would like any suggestions on ways to test the harness while installed or any other ideas on why my car runs pig rich.

Recently had the injectors cleaned, but no change. They were no measured with specs, just had cleaners ran through and verified flow rate between the 4. All 4 were really close to each other.

Thanks for any input.
80 Corolla Hatchback - Power (In Progress) http://www.3tcgarage.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3208
88 Alltrac - Snow (Waiting for the garage) http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=43482

Cardomain - http://www.cardomain.com/id/chris52580
User avatar
UtahSleeper
Established Member
 
Posts: 1917
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Magna, UT

Re: Alltrac with st215 motor running rich.

Postby Andy » Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:39 am

A while back I helped Lamont out when he ws running rich....

http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=33578&start=210

But this was on a 185 engine, with an AFM... I think the 215 replaced the AFM.

The ECU pumps in fuel to match the air flow it being fed into the engine.

Thus, if the sensor which replaced the AFM is not working as if should, or there is a short in the signal wire, the ECU may be seeing a faulty high volume of air flow. It then pumps fuel to match it, avoiding a lean condition.

Jut my .02

Maybe you already did, but make sure the air flow measurement is accurate.

Andy
Andy
Club Member
 
Posts: 329
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:50 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Alltrac with st215 motor running rich.

Postby UtahSleeper » Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:04 am

Andy wrote:A while back I helped Lamont out when he ws running rich....

http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=33578&start=210

But this was on a 185 engine, with an AFM... I think the 215 replaced the AFM.

The ECU pumps in fuel to match the air flow it being fed into the engine.

Thus, if the sensor which replaced the AFM is not working as if should, or there is a short in the signal wire, the ECU may be seeing a faulty high volume of air flow. It then pumps fuel to match it, avoiding a lean condition.

Jut my .02

Maybe you already did, but make sure the air flow measurement is accurate.

Andy


The st215 uses a map sensor. I have tried to replace it with no change in results. The ECU(with torque reading it) shows my vacuum and boost from the ECU readings and they seem to always be close to what my mechanical gauge shows. So, I assume that is probably fine. In one of my previous videos the one thing that always stands out is that the fuel trim being read from the ECU seems to be trying to take fuel away. Obviously its not helping though lol.
80 Corolla Hatchback - Power (In Progress) http://www.3tcgarage.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3208
88 Alltrac - Snow (Waiting for the garage) http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=43482

Cardomain - http://www.cardomain.com/id/chris52580
User avatar
UtahSleeper
Established Member
 
Posts: 1917
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Magna, UT

Re: Alltrac with st215 motor running rich.

Postby bitter » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:54 am

I know that you had your injectors cleaned, but are they the correct size injectors? Just a thought.
bitter
Club Member
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 3:02 am
Location: Bay Area, CA

Re: Alltrac with st215 motor running rich.

Postby UtahSleeper » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:57 am

bitter wrote:I know that you had your injectors cleaned, but are they the correct size injectors? Just a thought.


They are the stock injectors by look(skinny and light blue). Look identical to ones I have seen for sale.
80 Corolla Hatchback - Power (In Progress) http://www.3tcgarage.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3208
88 Alltrac - Snow (Waiting for the garage) http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=43482

Cardomain - http://www.cardomain.com/id/chris52580
User avatar
UtahSleeper
Established Member
 
Posts: 1917
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Magna, UT

Re: Alltrac with st215 motor running rich.

Postby UtahSleeper » Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:03 am

Bump. Still accepting suggestions. Also, any good write ups on testing a harness?
80 Corolla Hatchback - Power (In Progress) http://www.3tcgarage.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3208
88 Alltrac - Snow (Waiting for the garage) http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=43482

Cardomain - http://www.cardomain.com/id/chris52580
User avatar
UtahSleeper
Established Member
 
Posts: 1917
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Magna, UT

Re: Alltrac with st215 motor running rich.

Postby 3SDNA » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:37 am

UtahSleeper wrote:Bump. Still accepting suggestions. Also, any good write ups on testing a harness?


When I got my Caldina swap running, I was having this same issue, but I ended up replacing the water temp sensor for the ECU, and that fixed it.
3SDNA
Club Member
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:50 pm
Location: Buckeye, AZ

Re: Alltrac with st215 motor running rich.

Postby CTechBlueDragon » Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:34 pm

Wire in a datalogger or an obd2 port so you can log all the values and then wiggle your harness around and see what changes. This works while its running or not running. I saw a video of a guy having problems and this was how he figured out what it was.
CTechBlueDragon
Club Member
 
Posts: 204
Images: 50
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:12 am

Re: Alltrac with st215 motor running rich.

Postby UtahSleeper » Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:56 pm

3SDNA wrote:
UtahSleeper wrote:Bump. Still accepting suggestions. Also, any good write ups on testing a harness?


When I got my Caldina swap running, I was having this same issue, but I ended up replacing the water temp sensor for the ECU, and that fixed it.


Wish mine was that easy :/ I have replaced the coolant sensor on the trans side of the motor with no luck. Its weird cause the ECU seems to have all the values(Using Torque Pro), but still runs rich.

I will try the harness wiggle. Torque has a logger, so it shouldn't be too hard.
80 Corolla Hatchback - Power (In Progress) http://www.3tcgarage.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3208
88 Alltrac - Snow (Waiting for the garage) http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=43482

Cardomain - http://www.cardomain.com/id/chris52580
User avatar
UtahSleeper
Established Member
 
Posts: 1917
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Magna, UT

Re: Alltrac with st215 motor running rich.

Postby UtahSleeper » Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:59 pm

Figured I would update.

I believe I found my running rich issue. The sensor for the FPR(located under the manifold). Today I ran a vacuum line from the intake to the FPR(bypass sensor, but leave it connected to the harness) and it appeared to started idling cleaner after it warmed up a little bit. The fuel trim gauge in torque initially showed no data, but after idling a little it seemed the ECU started adjusting the fuel trim. So, not I am going to get a new sensor and see if it behaves correctly.
80 Corolla Hatchback - Power (In Progress) http://www.3tcgarage.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3208
88 Alltrac - Snow (Waiting for the garage) http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=43482

Cardomain - http://www.cardomain.com/id/chris52580
User avatar
UtahSleeper
Established Member
 
Posts: 1917
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Magna, UT

Re: Alltrac with st215 motor running rich.

Postby CTechBlueDragon » Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:20 am

Interesting! Have you noticed any extra power on boost? Mine seems to be doing something similar now. My plugs are all sooted up. This may just be because I only have the downpipe on and no exhaust tho, not sure how much that matters?
Guess I will just throw some e-85 in there to balance it out! LOL jk
CTechBlueDragon
Club Member
 
Posts: 204
Images: 50
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:12 am

Re: Alltrac with st215 motor running rich.

Postby UtahSleeper » Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:50 am

CTechBlueDragon wrote:Interesting! Have you noticed any extra power on boost? Mine seems to be doing something similar now. My plugs are all sooted up. This may just be because I only have the downpipe on and no exhaust tho, not sure how much that matters?
Guess I will just throw some e-85 in there to balance it out! LOL jk


I haven't driven it much since its not registered. Hoping to finally reg and drive so i can find all the other issues lol
80 Corolla Hatchback - Power (In Progress) http://www.3tcgarage.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3208
88 Alltrac - Snow (Waiting for the garage) http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=43482

Cardomain - http://www.cardomain.com/id/chris52580
User avatar
UtahSleeper
Established Member
 
Posts: 1917
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Magna, UT

PreviousNext

Return to General Maintenance and Repair

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests