1st gen 3SGE

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1st gen 3SGE

Postby celicaGTS_T » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:44 am

I came across a 1st gen 3SGE and was wondering if it would be worth it to swap it into my '90 GTS. A buddy of mine is selling a '88GTS coupe with a 3SGE for $500. Storage space is limited, so i was wondering before I buy it, is it worth the trouble?
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Postby Rick89GTS » Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:08 am

Probably not worth the hassle as they have the same HP.
Add in the fact that you'll need the 3SGE ECU, wiring and all ancilliaries for no gain in HP and a loss in low-end torque and it's a no-brainer.

The 3SGE is a beautiful engine and performs better at the top end but for city driving, you're not gaining much.
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Postby celicaGTS_T » Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:07 pm

Sweet, Thats what I was thinking too. Would it be worth it to purchase a 2nd or 3rd gen from Toysport?
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Postby Rick89GTS » Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:23 am

2nd gen 3SGE puts out about 156 na HP but again, you'll need all the extras.
Not sure about the HP of the 3rd Gen (+/- 175 hp?) but if you're gonna go through the time and trouble of a motor swap, it might as well be the 3SGTE , where you get 200 HP.
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Postby celicaGTS_T » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:33 am

Well, I was looking for a another route instead of the 3SGTE. Thats why I'm interested in the 3SGE or maybe the BEAMS engine
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Postby Rick89GTS » Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:10 am

BEAMS is very nice but rare n/a power (from what little I know about them).
It wouldn't surprise me if it was pricier than a 3SGTE though. Give Toysport a shout and see what they say. I could've swore there was someone on this site who purchased one....was it Bryan from Sask? aka Flyin' Bryan?
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Postby pokemeintheeye » Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:17 pm

The block will have to be modified a little, but you can just swap the head from that 3sge onto your 5sfe block. You'll have more horsepower and more low end torque. Of course though. The ecu and wiring harness will be needed. You did say its coming from a friend's car? I'm sure you can work up a deal with him.
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Postby Toxygene » Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:45 pm

The Beams 3sge is a nice engine. It's like having a JDM Integra Type R engine though. If I remember correctly I believe it makes about 200HP NA. Only problem is that it doesn't have a lot of low end torque. But again it's like a Type R motor. You need to rev the snot out of it to get it going. The weight of the car will also be a factor with this motor.

I've seen listings for this engine on E-bay and on the net. It's more expensive than a 3SGTE which then begs the question, "what you intend to do with the car?" The 3SGTE has more power potential but then it's also a heavier motor.

The other option you could do is a V6 swap. I believe that with a Camry V6 and the TRD supercharger you could be very happy with the power output and the daily driveability. Plus expense wise I believe it would fall between the 3SGTE and 3SGE swap.

It would be interesting to see a 3SGE swap done and then get either the Cusco lightweight hood or a CF hoodh, the CS bumper which is also lighter than the US bumper. Then keep pushing for the CF hatch to be made. Hopefully if you could lighten up the car you'd have a decent auto X car.

The 3SGTE has tons of power potential which will make up for it's weight. It wouldn't hurt to still try to lighten up the car but then you will be working for a balance between turbo lag and power. This would probably be better for a drag car.

The V6 swap will weigh about the same as the 3SGTE. I remember reading this several times. So the difference is in the Torque you get and with the TRD supercharger you obviously can tune in some more power and torque and you'd have no turbo lag to deal with. Not quite the power potential you get with the 3SGTE but the torque will make up for this in some respects.

As far as attaining these engines, you could possibly get front clips for the 3SGE Beams, and the 3SGTE. You might have to find someone local to get the V6. But then if you go this route you could get all the ancilliaries and the ECU you'd need to make the swap work.

Sorry for the novel... lol :D
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Postby Mafix » Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:56 pm

it was a damn good novel though!
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Postby Rick89GTS » Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:13 am

pokemeintheeye wrote:The block will have to be modified a little, but you can just swap the head from that 3sge onto your 5sfe block. You'll have more horsepower and more low end torque....

Has anyone ever done this successfully before?
Seems like anyone who has attempted this has ended up with a melted motor....
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Postby Mafix » Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:37 pm

not to my knowledge
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Postby Rick89GTS » Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:21 pm

pokemeintheeye wrote:The block will have to be modified a little, but you can just swap the head from that 3sge onto your 5sfe block.....


Not that easy, it takes quite a bit of engineering for very little gain.
This guy did it, it looked like a success but then the motor started to self-destruct.

http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17078
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Postby pokemeintheeye » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:26 am

Actually, it is that easy. Plenty of people have done. Not much write up on it though. 3sgte heads have been swapped onto 5sfe blocks as well. That one takes more work but a non-turbo 3sge head will drop right on. Best to use a '92 plus block.

Most 3sge head swaps usually get turbocharged later down the road.
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Postby Rick89GTS » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:44 am

I don't see too many around but I'll take your word for it.
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Postby Mafix » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:45 am

lol and we see who has been around for a while.
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