powerprimers

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powerprimers

Postby Fat Trac » Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:44 am

so, we have the same engine, with just a few differences, how accurately should the mr2 primer be applied to the all trac? http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/power.htm
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Postby alltracman78 » Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:26 am

If it's the same engine.....
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Postby RIalltrac » Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:07 pm

The biggest difference your going to find would be mods vs. wheel horse power figures. The only thing you can compare hp wise would be crank figures. Less drive train loss = higher whp
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Postby ChrisD » Thu Sep 23, 2004 2:34 pm

Theres a few things i really dont like about that primer...but in theory all the principles can be applied to our cars. And yes, if you had a given WHP for an mr2, with the same mods, you would be roughly 5% lower on an alltrac in AWHP terms.
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Postby RIalltrac » Thu Sep 23, 2004 2:49 pm

Theres a few things i really dont like about that primer


Care to share, I read that primer on a fairly regular basis. Kinda hoping one day some of it will stick. I'd like to know what you disagree with, for comparison reasons that is.
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Postby CMS-GT4 » Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:03 pm

I would like to see a primer on HP vs. torque in the 3sgte.

TTE made 300hp and 600lbs/tq in the rally car. I want to know how to increase tq in such a way. I have been told to study diesel engines. Since many provide larger tq numbers then hp. I have also been told VE plays a huge role.
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Postby BraveUlysses » Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:36 pm

The TTE engine would have more HP but it has to have a restrictor on the intake, so in reality the engine would make more hp if it could breathe more, but still makes the torque.
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Postby alltracman78 » Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:38 pm

Max torque in a engine occurs at the rpm that the engine is at it's most effecient [the point it's at it's best VE].

HP is just a factor of the torque x rpms. If the hp were limited by a restrictor, so would the torque.
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Postby CMS-GT4 » Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:06 pm

That is what I thought. But how is it that tq can be higher then hp?
with 300hp, and 600 tq.
I know of several well tuned cars that produce higher tq then hp. One is a volvo, and it produces almost 100 more lbs of tq then hp.
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Postby Gary » Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:31 pm

CMS-GT4 wrote:That is what I thought. But how is it that tq can be higher then hp?
with 300hp, and 600 tq.
I know of several well tuned cars that produce higher tq then hp. One is a volvo, and it produces almost 100 more lbs of tq then hp.

Because they are measured at different RPM.
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Postby turbo4wd » Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:54 pm

CMS-GT4 wrote:That is what I thought. But how is it that tq can be higher then hp?
with 300hp, and 600 tq.
I know of several well tuned cars that produce higher tq then hp. One is a volvo, and it produces almost 100 more lbs of tq then hp.


Well an engine making more torque than hp isnt rare, after all you just need to look at big rigs that make 1000 lb/ft of tq while making "only" 500 hp.. I guess it depends on what TTE did in terms of internals, and how they tuned that sucker.. :shrug:
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Postby busdriver » Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:58 pm

Kind of off the topic but I saw an '04 Duramax diesel with twin turbos and 81 lbs of boost that had a dyno sheet for 1300hp and 2100 lb-ft of torque :twisted: . He owns a diesel shop in Malta MT if you are ever in the area..
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Postby Gary » Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:04 pm

Off topic too :wink:
Maximum power: 108,920 hp at 102 rpm
Maximum torque: 5,608,312 lb/ft at 102rpm
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/
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Postby illGT4 » Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:29 pm

Gary wrote:Off topic too :wink:
Maximum power: 108,920 hp at 102 rpm
Maximum torque: 5,608,312 lb/ft at 102rpm
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/


You could take 'em , Gary! :)
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Postby Conrad_Turbo » Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:40 pm

CMS-GT4 wrote:That is what I thought. But how is it that tq can be higher then hp?
with 300hp, and 600 tq.
I know of several well tuned cars that produce higher tq then hp. One is a volvo, and it produces almost 100 more lbs of tq then hp.


Hp is derived from torque and rpms, if you have an engine with a lot of torque but can't rev very high then you'll get a very torqey motor with a low peak hp output. Another way to look at it is that you have an engine that is very efficient at a lower rpm than at high/redline rpms.

The WRC cars most likely have a very different hp and torque band than most street cars. Largely due to the restrictor and different design changes to work around that.
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