The truth about ST215 3sgte engine

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Postby ___Scott___ » Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:13 pm

pit_celica wrote:but I don't want wasted spark mode ... So, I'll do my swap using the Ford EDIS4 ignition module. It will work well.

It'll work, but you do know that EDIS4 is a wasted spark system? Not that there is anything wrong with wasted spark, I run EDIS8 on my Camaro.
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Postby pit_celica » Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:03 pm

For answering allblackalltrac, Here's the Toyota part numbers for the camshafts :

ST165 : Intake : 13501-88380
Exhaust :13502-88380
ST185 : Intake :13501-88381
Exhaust :13502-88381
ST205 : Intake : 13501-88480
Exhaust: 13502-88480
ST215 : Intake : 13501-88580
Exhaust : 13502-88480

As I can seen, the exhaust camshaft is the same as the ST205 one.
Tell me if you find something interesting about the camshaft spec for my ST215 engine.

For ___Scott___, thanks for your information, I didn't know that. Anyway, I'll running EDIS4 and my coil are for sale. That's all I need to know 8) !

Thanks

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Postby allblackalltrac » Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:37 pm

I cant find any info on the cam specs of the 4th gen 3SGTE in the ST215...but I think that it would be safe to say that the cam specs will be different from the other gens given they dont share any of the same part numbers - wether or not they are more aggressive is another theory.

I thought I would add that the 5th gen 3SGTE found in the 02'-06' Calidna - chassis code ST256, makes even more power than the 4th gen 3SGTE and has a few revisions to the IC and intake manifold. Given that it makes more power than its predecessors again it would be fair to say that the cam specs are different. Although I havent found a part number for the cams they do not utilize VVTI like there N/A counterparts.

Image

BTW Pit_celica I sent you a PM regarding the turbo.
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Postby illGT4 » Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:33 pm

chris_dittrick wrote:that wouldnt be a traditional ct20b. The ct20b came on ST205's, and was not cast to the manifold. This new turbo, though may share a lot with the ct20b, is not a ct20b.

ct20b is more efficient than the ct26, and can thereby efficiently support more than 15psi. 18psi can be fine with proper tuning.

Also, shattering turbines are *extremely* rare. Heat has a significant role in that...


+1 Excellent reply.
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Postby allblackalltrac » Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:52 am

Does the 4G 3SGTE have a crank trigger wheel for COP?
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Postby pit_celica » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:02 pm

Yes it has a crank trigger wheel and a VR sensor and a cam angle sensor too, here's some pics of them:

sensor and trigger wheel on oil pump
Image

trigger wheel
Image

cam angle sensor and arm
Image

sensor
Image

Thanks

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Postby ___Scott___ » Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:19 pm

Cool!

I assume each tooth represents 10 degrees, so you could probably modify the long tooth to make it into a 36-1 trigger wheel that EDIS uses natively. Since EDIS is wasted spark, you don't need the cam position sensor.
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Postby allblackalltrac » Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:56 pm

Stole all this information from the MR2 boards...

Beams 3S-GE
trigger wheel: 13521-88560
angle sensor: 90919-05034

A clearer pic of the trigger wheel

Image

98+ 3SGTE/5SFE
Oil-pump complete: 15100-74050
trigger wheel: 13521-74040
angle sensor: 90919-05017

Remember that the Beams and the 3-5 gen 3SGTE's use a completely different oil pan/oil pump - 2 piece oil pan. If you want to use the Toyota trigger wheel and sensor and need an oil pump cover for the 2G 3SGTE get one from the latest Solara.

Notice the recess for the sensor...you only need the cover, the 2G 3S oil pump gear has 27 teeth, the 3G 3S oil pump gear has 25 teeth, the Solara 5S oil pump gear has 25 teeth.
So either get just the oil pump cover or swap the gears.

Image

Here is a somewhat clearer example of the newer Solara 5S oil pump compaired to the older Celica/MR2 3S oil pump.

Image

pit_celica, do you have a part number for the 4G 3SGTE oil pump, trigger wheel and angle sensor? Can you count how many teeth there are on the 4G 3SGTE oil pump gear?
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Postby pit_celica » Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:12 pm

Thanks for the information and for the nice pics allblackalltrac. Here's the part numbers that you requested for the 4th gen 3sgte :

oil pump : 15100-88560 and 15100-88561
trigger wheel : 13521-88560*
angle sensor : 90919-05034


*the trigger wheel and the crankshaft gear can't be separate

The oil pump gear has 27 teeths. Tell me if you can find some other information with these part numbers.

Thanks for the idea __Scott__, I never think at it. I got the EDIS4 system uninstalled in my garage. This system include the stock VR sensor from Ford Escort. I think that I'll try to use the Toyota crank sensor if I can. It will be a lot easier to use the stock one than building a mount for the new sensor and to mount a new 36-1 wheel on my crank pulley. I'll make some experiences on the both sensors and if I can adapt the Toyota one, I'll be very happy.

So thanks guys for your help and I'm waiting for other information about "my mystical egine" LOL ;).

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Postby allblackalltrac » Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:56 pm

Interesting to note that the trigger wheel and sensor are the same as the Beams motors. Even more interesting is that the 4G 3SGTE uses 27 teeth, same as the 2G 3SGTE oil pump gear but the 3G 3S oil pump gear uses 25...maybe it has to do with the fact that I counted the number of teeth on my 3G 3SGE and not on the 3G 3SGTE....further inspection is needed.
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Postby GT4165 » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:55 am

bump the thread... more info please
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Postby pit_celica » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:41 am

what kind of info are you looking about? Maybe I can answer you!

Sam
1991 Toyota Celica GT-S ST184 with 3SGTE gen4 ST215 swap, Megasquirt 3 + MS3X, t3/t4 turbo, 3" full exhaust, front mount intercooler and more for fun !!!!!
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Postby wagonist » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:23 pm

Hi all.

I've just found this thread, and wanted to make you aware of incorrect information that i've found out from first hand experience.

1. there's no such thing as a Gen V in the ST246, it is an identical motor to that in the ST215 including power (ie 191kW)

2. the 7 stud exhaust manifold in the early (series 1 1997-2000) ST215 was changed back to an 8 stud like all previous 3S-GTEs in the series 2 ST215 to fix a random & rare cracking problem.

3. the exhaust manifolds from the ST215 will fit other 3S-GTEs (you will need to remove the extra exhaust stud from the "8th" hole so it will bolt up to the head. How it fits into your engine bay, that's your problem. And has been said, the port sizes are different.

4. the only difference between the ST205 intake camshaft & the ST215 intake camshaft is the end where the distributor was removed to make way for a sensor. Lobe profiles are identical

Personally, I'm not happy with the top mounted interheater on my ST215, but I also don't want to extend the intake length by adding a front mount.
Quite a few of these are now being imported in Australia, and I even know of someone in Brazil who did a LHD conversion on his ST215 import. :shock:
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Postby pit_celica » Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:39 pm

Hi, thanks for you post man, but I'll show you some facts that prove you wrong on some points :

1-

Here's a ST215 engine bay :

Image

Here's a ST246 engine bay :

Image

As you can see : different air to air intercooler. Maybe not a completely other engine, but some minor esthetic differences.

Maybe the same power, but it's the very same engine. Some minor differences between ST215 and ST246.

An other thread about ST215 vs ST246 :

http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=349341

2- Maybe, but I would want some comparision pics to prove it.

3- False, gen 1 and 2 3sgte exhaust manifold bolt pattern and hole spacing are different from gen 3 and 4. So, you cannot bolt a gen 3 or gen 4 exhaust manifold on a gen 1 or 2 head. This is proven, do a little more search on this.

4- True.
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Postby wagonist » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:12 am

1. They may look cosmetically different, and that's not surprising considering the bodyshell is different, but someone else posted above about the later motor having more power, and therefore would be preferable for a conversion. It would be preferable because it's newer and therefore more likely to have lower usage, but not because it has more power, and because they're auto only, they have less use.

2. proven fact. The nearest Series 2 ST215 (2001 model) to me is 1000km away, so its a bit hard to get a photo & also seeing as the "8th" hole is the top one hiding behind the alternator, extremely difficult to get a photo of. The Series 1 head does have the stud hole already in the head (so allowing a "fix" to the later version if it cracks), but the exhaust flange has no provision for it :shrug: New Zealand forums are good for finding out stuff on JDM cars as they get them imported (and modified) and put mileage on them usually well before any other country.

3. whoops sorry, I meant that Gen IV & Gen III manifold were interchangeable. ie an ST205 manifold can be fitted to an ST215 engine to allow "easier" changing of the turbo. Thanks for pointing that out.

BTW after 1 year of ownership of my manual ST215 (it's now my second Caldina), I've added 40000km to it. When you do that kind of mileage, its important to know what can possibly go wrong with them. :wink:
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