ST185 Front 4" Component Speaker replacements?

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ST185 Front 4" Component Speaker replacements?

Postby toayoztan » Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:30 am

So...what are you replacing these with?

It seems like you can't find a pair of 4" comps w/o burning a hole in my pocket.

I don't want crap, but spending 300+ for decent comps seems a bit steep.

I bought some polk audio 6.5" comps in the rear from amazon that'll do the job. They don't really have anything for 4".

I doubt a 5 1/4" will fit too huh?

Bryan
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Re: ST185 Front 4" Component Speaker replacements?

Postby fussellbug » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:10 pm

Crutchfield has 26 different pairs of 4" speakers listed starting at $40. I usually find that I can get a lower price elsewhere but this will provide a starting point for what's available.

http://www.crutchfield.com/g_51200/4-Speakers.html?tp=102
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Re: ST185 Front 4" Component Speaker replacements?

Postby underscore » Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:05 pm

I got some cheaper Pioneers a few years ago and they work great. You should be able to easily find a bunch of inexpensive 4" speakers.
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Re: ST185 Front 4" Component Speaker replacements?

Postby toayoztan » Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:33 pm

I can find plenty of 4".

But I want components where the tweeter is separate, and retained at the mirror area.

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Re: ST185 Front 4" Component Speaker replacements?

Postby ZeroDrift » Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:55 pm

Look into Parts Express. They have some 'car speakers' which are typically overpriced and a huge selection of speaker drivers (speakers for diy applications)that will work in a car. Take measurements and search for most any 4 ohm speaker on their site.
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Re: ST185 Front 4" Component Speaker replacements?

Postby fussellbug » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:13 pm

Are you looking for a midrange or something with lower frequency response?

Amazon has two pairs of CDT midrange (100-5000 Hz)
$90/pair http://www.amazon.com/CL-4SL-CDT-MIDRANGE-MIDBASS-SPEAKERS/dp/B008I5NP3S/ref=sr_1_14?s=car&ie=UTF8&qid=1344118840&sr=1-14
$110/pair http://www.amazon.com/CDT-AUDIO-CL-4-Midrange-Driver/dp/B00065B0Q2/ref=sr_1_398?s=car&ie=UTF8&qid=1344119323&sr=1-398

To get a 4" woofer to produce lower end (<100Hz) is harder to find but this woofer handles down to 45Hz:
$110/Each http://www.amazon.com/Morel-CAW-Cast-Frame-Woofer/dp/B00102M03W/ref=sr_1_395?s=car&ie=UTF8&qid=1344121524&sr=1-395
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Re: ST185 Front 4" Component Speaker replacements?

Postby toayoztan » Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:56 am

I have 8" kicker SSMB8 in the doors, so I just need midrange 4" comps to take care of the rest up front. I already purchased full range comps in the back.

I'm looking for 4" components with midrange 4" with a high range tweeter component.

I can find plenty of 4", but no actual set of 4" components (separate 4" midrange with 1" or so high freq/range tweeter) for less than 2-300 bucks.

It looks as if I may have to buy a 4" speaker, and buy tweeter separates and hook them up with a crossover...basically, build my own components.

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Re: ST185 Front 4" Component Speaker replacements?

Postby mda185 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:37 pm

toayoztan wrote:I have 8" kicker SSMB8 in the doors, so I just need midrange 4" comps to take care of the rest up front. I already purchased full range comps in the back.

I'm looking for 4" components with midrange 4" with a high range tweeter component.

I can find plenty of 4", but no actual set of 4" components (separate 4" midrange with 1" or so high freq/range tweeter) for less than 2-300 bucks.

It looks as if I may have to buy a 4" speaker, and buy tweeter separates and hook them up with a crossover...basically, build my own components.

Bryan

Building your own is almost always going to sound better and cost less than commercial sets. This is particularly true if you replace the factory amp with an aftermarket unit with built in crossovers. Parts Express has a very good inexpensive 4" driver that has more X max than anything I have ever seen from a commercial car stereo speaker. X max is how much travel the voice coil has before significant distortion sets in.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=290-212

You may have to get creative to mount it because the holes will probably not line up with the factory speakers but this will blow them away and be worth the effort. Rolling your own crossover is not too difficult but if you are new to this, spend some time studying how. Here are some good links:

http://www.passivecrossovers.com/index.htm

http://sound.westhost.com/lr-passive.htm

I like the LPG and SEAS tweeters sold by Madisound Speakers better than most of what Parts Express sells:

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/auto-tweeters/

You can do this for far less than $200 if you take some time to learn how. If you upgrade the amplifier under the passenger seat to one with crossovers built in, this becomes very easy. Just set the high and low pass frequency to somewhere between 2500-5000 Hz depending on how low your tweeter can go. Higher is safer for the tweeter. Lower usually sounds better. Tweeters that will fit the OEM pod on the door will all have high crossover frequencies. It takes a larger, more expensive design to get a tweeter you can cross over around 2500-3000 Hz. You will also have to set the amps' input gain so the tweeter and woofer are equal loudness.

A complete description of how to do this is more than I am willing to write in a thread. There is a ton of good diy info at :

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/
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Re: ST185 Front 4" Component Speaker replacements?

Postby toayoztan » Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:20 pm

Nice, thanks for the help guys. I'll have to read up on and check out those links you all sent over the next week and get this done right the first time.

For the rears, I wasn't too concerned about making my own comps, but for the fronts, where I sit, and with the door woofers, I wanted to make sure the 4" are pushing out correctly.

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Re: ST185 Front 4" Component Speaker replacements?

Postby mda185 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:41 pm

fussellbug wrote:To get a 4" woofer to produce lower end (<100Hz) is harder to find but this woofer handles down to 45Hz:
$110/Each http://www.amazon.com/Morel-CAW-Cast-Frame-Woofer/dp/B00102M03W/ref=sr_1_395?s=car&ie=UTF8&qid=1344121524&sr=1-395


Nothing will reproduce down to 45 Hz in our dashboard locations. That would require a sealed enclosure behind the driver and driver design features that would probably make it a lousy midrange. It is very misleading the way manufacturers quote specs on their speakers. A meaningful frequency response spec should state min to max frequency within +/- 3 dB and whether the speaker is operating infinite baffle or in an enclosure. Any other rating is meaningless. The Morel is a very good driver but getting 45 Hz out of that is not going to happen. Take a look at its specs on the Parts Express website:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=297-080

The response is not given in terms of +/- 3 dB. That means that it is probably way down on response at 45 Hz to the order of - 10 dB or more. Next, look at the parameter called Qts. It is 0.38. I don't want to get too deep into loudspeaker design theory here but the important thing is that a mobile audio speaker that will be mounted in dash, door, or kick panel location should probably have a Qts of 0.5-0.9. The higher Qts will give punchier sounding mid bass. Lower Qts values will give flatter, more realistic bass response. 0.7 is usually considered optimum for flat bass response. Qts of 0.38 tells me this driver is best in a ported box that might go down to 100 Hz or a sealed box that will have a -3 dB point of around 150 Hz. It is not well suited to be mounted in our dash location. Qts of 0.38 without an enclosure will start rolling off bass response up around 200-250 Hz for this driver. If it could be crossed over to the door speaker at 250-300 Hz, then it is a reasonable choice. I think the Parts Express 4" driver I linked to in another post is a better choice. It costs much less, has more available cone travel to handle over-excursions, has Qts of 0.55 and a much lower resonant frequency (Fs) than the Morel unit. It is rated very highly by DIYers that have used it.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=290-212

Having said all that, the frequency response spec for the Parts Express unit is also bs. It is not given in terms of +/- 3dB and not stated whether it is in an enclosure or not. Realistically, this driver will be - 3dB around 125 Hz in our dash location. Put it in an enclosure and it could get down to 80-90 Hz at best. That is not bad and way better than our stock 4" dash speakers and most of what you will find at Crutchfield.
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Re: ST185 Front 4" Component Speaker replacements?

Postby Killtodie » Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:01 pm

I'm told the kickers are a good deal

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271035757930?_t ... 97.c0.m619

I might get them, have not heard them though
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Re: ST185 Front 4" Component Speaker replacements?

Postby Killtodie » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:26 pm

anyone know what fits in the rear? im looking at kenwoods and they only make 5.25. will they fit?
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Re: ST185 Front 4" Component Speaker replacements?

Postby quieter » Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:21 pm

the st185s back speakers are 5.25 (5 1/4) anything this size will fit, front is 4 inch
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Re: ST185 Front 4" Component Speaker replacements?

Postby toayoztan » Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:30 pm

I'm pretty sure the rear is like 6.5" round.

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