1st ever track day - WOW my brakes suck

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Stubble

Active member
I took a driving course, which culmintates with two days on a road course. I was happy that the AT ran well (other than hitting fuel cut a few times), but the balance was great, and I could hang the back end out on most corners. I certainly blew many corners by coming in too fast, but that was partly the fault of these shitty brakes. I guess part of the problem is the spongy pedal I always seem to have. I'll be getting a new master cylinder soon. But, I now understand why getting a big brake kit is such a good idea. I could slaughter my current lap times with better brakes as opposed to a bigger turbo.

Sorry if I sound like such a noob, but this road racing gig is pretty exciting. Too bad I finished off my tires (zero tread and blistering), so I'll have to take my miata tomorrow. Still, it will be an interesting contrast (light, lower power).
 
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Stubble

Active member
Day 2 was a blast as well, even though I had to take the Miata. Surprisingly, the lower power wasn't such a big deal. The instructors said that is because the course is tight. I guess minus 900 lbs makes up for less power and less lateral grip.

All in all, 2 days of track time and lots of instruction for $250 seems like a pretty good deal.
 
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nfn15037

New member
With the proper pads and fluid you shouldn't have any braking problems. Glad to hear you had a good time on track!
 
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turbo4wd

Moderator
Along with what nfn said, try braking sooner and more progressively. If you stab at the brakes at the very last moment, they wont do you any good.

Before investing a ton of money into a big brake kit, I'd recommend trying out stickier rubber.
 
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Stubble

Active member
Yeah, I have to figure out where my upgrade dollars get spent now. If I plan on tracking the car lots, I'll get brakes. However, I don't think I'll be there that often, so maybe a big turbo is better for fooling around on the street.
 
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Stubble

Active member
Yes, but shutting the car off will eliminate the fuel cut condition so you can drive normally. Pulling the ECU fuse will clear the code. I pitted, shut down then restarted, and went on my way.
 
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pepper

New member
Stubble":3aed4jtu said:
Yeah, I have to figure out where my upgrade dollars get spent now. If I plan on tracking the car lots, I'll get brakes. However, I don't think I'll be there that often, so maybe a big turbo is better for fooling around on the street.
Click to expand...

At a minimum, get some uprated pads (Porterfield, etc.), change your brake fluid, etc. One of the biggest benefits (and confidence booster) on the street are very good brakes. It's much easier psychologically to get up to higher speeds (whether in a straight line or in the twisties) knowing you can bring it down when you need to. Safer, too.

-Mike
 
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Stubble

Active member
Fluid is all new, as I put new brake lines on last year. I think I need to bleed the master cylinder though. I let it run low (out?) during the gravity bleed when I changed the lines, and although I bled a ton of fluid through, I think there may be some air trapped somewhere in the MC. :shrug:
 
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theUNYTEDone

Moderator
i think the air might do it. i recently did this, and the level was "good" according to everything...but after some driving...wooh. scary shit. i rechecked and it was horribly low. sometimes it decides to bleed on its own. :doh:
 
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Speedy2k

New member
How do you get air out of the master cylinder? I heard of bench bleeding, but not sure exactly what needs to be done.
 
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theUNYTEDone

Moderator
dont know about bench bleeding, but when you bleed it, i suppose it'd be wise to make sure that you actually pump your brakes (while car is running) to make sure your brake system is working. dont do it on a hill, though. :p
 
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MrWOT

New member
It's quite easy to bleed your brakes, and there is a really simple, foolproof way to do it. Get a big jar, cup, whatever and fill it halfway full with your brake fluid, get a piece of tubing that will fit snugly over the bleed screw and put it over the top, run the other end all the way to the bottom of the half-full jar/cup of brake fluid. Now open the screw a little bit, and go slowly step on your brake pedal, until it's all the way to the floor. It will displace all the fluid in the system into the empty half of the cup, and all the air that comes out will dissipate to the top of the cup, now let the brake pedal off slowly and viola! It will suck airless brake fluid back through the bleed screw into the system :D Do it a few times to be sure ALL the air is out.

To bench bleed the master cylinder, follow this webpage.
http://www.misterfixit.com/brakbld1.htm
 
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SBCelicaGT

New member
Brady-

Glad to hear you got your car out on a real track. Be careful, the go-fast crackpipe that is open track events is quite addictive. ;)

As for your braking woes, what kind of fluid did you use? What kind of pads did you run?

A cheap fix that can work amazingly well is the use of brake ducts. With zip ties and duct tape, anything is possible:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/ ... c528fc.jpg

I was running stock-type pads at the time and the ducting did help me squeeze another lap in before I completely cooked the pads and had to back off.
 
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Stubble

Active member
Both sets of pads are of an unknown brand. They were done before I learned to do my own car repair. The rears are completely shot, so I will be ordering some Hawks or Porterfields in the next day or so. I'm pretty sure I have some air in the system, as the pedal goes to the floor much too easily. I'm going to work on the master cyl this weekend.
 
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esracing

Member
i have had same problem at the trac use dot 4 and porterfield and brake ducks and i will still cook the brakes .your pads are cooked! and rotors glazed use porterfield full rae pads or enderance pads.also they have heat shims you can put between the pads and calipers,also have heat strips you can put on calipers to see what temp the brakes are getting.all trac brake are not big enoght.for the weight and power.
 
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