MR2 better drag car than Alltrac?

Road race, Auto X, or the Drag Strip

MR2 better drag car than Alltrac?

Postby lumbercis » Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:15 am

I don't expect a definitive answer to this, but would just like to spark some discussion of the merits/disadvantages of the alltrac as a drag car. Do you think the lighter weight and less drivetrain loss of the mr2 trumps the traction advantage of the alltrac? What is the best way to set up an alltrac for drags in order to emphasize it's strengths?

Related discussion: Stock turbo record for mr2's (which is decently documented) is 12.641. Previous but more well-documented record was 12.76.
CT20b record is 11.852
http://www.mr2ownersclub.com/mr2records/drag.html

For St185's stock CT-26 record seems to be Conny Ruuth's at 13.692. Disturbingly, John Stokes' JDM-swapped half-trac is actually the fastest St18x on the stock turbo (assuming it's not a gen 3 swap). Yes, that's right, a half-trac actually holds the stock CT-26 record at 13.512. :oops:

Les Koncyzk has the Ct20b record with his 205-swapped ST185 at 12.906.

http://www.gtfour.ca/race.html

So the question is, are we doomed to always be 1 second behind our two-seater brethren? Or have we yet to hit our potential?

J.
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Postby Conan » Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:10 am

I think you have answered your own question - weight and drivetrain. When slicks come into play there's little or no benefit from 4WD. There are videos of 400+ HP GT4s vs MR2s, and I haven't seen a GT4 gain more than half a car length on the launch. After that weight and power take over.
When in doubt - increase boost.
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Postby TomsGT4 » Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:02 pm

I'd like to start seeing some Alltrac times from the CT-27 ATS sells.
That, boost, fuel sys & a FMIC or good flowing shielded top mount I'd predict low 13's, maybe even high 12's.

But yeah, the MR2 has advantages to dragging, but you ever sat in one doing 140mph? You almost shit your pants.
In the Alltrac it feels more like crusing speed.
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Postby alltracshoak » Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:48 am

TomsGT4 wrote:I'd like to start seeing some Alltrac times from the CT-27 ATS sells.
That, boost, fuel sys & a FMIC or good flowing shielded top mount I'd predict low 13's, maybe even high 12's.

But yeah, the MR2 has advantages to dragging, but you ever sat in one doing 140mph? You almost shit your pants.
In the Alltrac it feels more like crusing speed.

i heard it was like flying or driving a flying saucer.
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Postby lumbercis » Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:15 am

Hey Tom,
Go to the drag strip and set the CT27 record! Although it seems like the CT27 should probably be grouped as "upgraded ct-26," in which case you have your work cut out for you: Klas Johansson went 12.577 on a ct-26-50trim in his St205! Fastest in a 185 was Simon Dawes 13.002 on a "Stage 2" CT-26 (I think Fensport sells these).

Anyway, Another question I have is about 60ft times. The best Mr2 drivers lay down some ridiculously low 60ft's. Average is 1.7-1.8, with the best hitting 1.4's. Although we don't have much alltrac data, 1.7-1.8 is about as fast as we get. In doing a little research on some DSM boards, I also heard people saying 1.7 was a "fast" 60ft for Talon's/Laser's (BTW, anyone know of a DSM quarter mile registry?)

But shouldn't AWD have an inherent advantage in 60ft times, having better traction? Or am I misunderstanding how 60ft times are generated? Is weight again the killer here? Hypotheically, if you had two equal weight cars, same driver, one RWD, one AWD, which should get the better 60ft?

J.
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Postby Maloy » Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:01 pm

lumbercis wrote:Hey Tom,
Go to the drag strip and set the CT27 record! Although it seems like the CT27 should probably be grouped as "upgraded ct-26," in which case you have your work cut out for you: Klas Johansson went 12.577 on a ct-26-50trim in his St205! Fastest in a 185 was Simon Dawes 13.002 on a "Stage 2" CT-26 (I think Fensport sells these).

Anyway, Another question I have is about 60ft times. The best Mr2 drivers lay down some ridiculously low 60ft's. Average is 1.7-1.8, with the best hitting 1.4's. Although we don't have much alltrac data, 1.7-1.8 is about as fast as we get. In doing a little research on some DSM boards, I also heard people saying 1.7 was a "fast" 60ft for Talon's/Laser's (BTW, anyone know of a DSM quarter mile registry?)

But shouldn't AWD have an inherent advantage in 60ft times, having better traction? Or am I misunderstanding how 60ft times are generated? Is weight again the killer here? Hypotheically, if you had two equal weight cars, same driver, one RWD, one AWD, which should get the better 60ft?

J.


I would say the awd one, but the awd is what makes the all-trac weigh so much.
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Postby TomsGT4 » Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:01 pm

lumbercis wrote:Hey Tom,
Go to the drag strip and set the CT27 record!


I would try to if I had one :) Next upgrade.
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Postby Mafix » Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:16 am

simple math...you would need several hundred horsepower more than an mr2 to beat it drag racing.
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Postby theUNYTEDone » Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:13 am

Mafix wrote:simple math...you would need several hundred horsepower more than an mr2 to beat it drag racing.


exactly. but this would be setting aside AWD. but a power:weight ratio is a good baseline for starting these calculations.
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Postby Klas » Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:27 am

My alltrac is a st165 not a st205 as chris put in the worldrace.
What we alltrac owners need is to get rid of wight by simply put in lexan windows and put on fiberglass hood and front fenders. That´s what I´m gonna do.
1/4 in 12.577s 176km/h so far
If you can turn, you drive to slow!
Now on youtube!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSD6LlwS830
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Postby theUNYTEDone » Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:47 am

Klas wrote:My alltrac is a st165 not a st205 as chris put in the worldrace.
What we alltrac owners need is to get rid of wight by simply put in lexan windows and put on fiberglass hood and front fenders. That´s what I´m gonna do.


is your car already not street legal?
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Postby Klas » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:21 am

The car is 100% street legal with stock interior and I´m gonna keep it that way.
1/4 in 12.577s 176km/h so far
If you can turn, you drive to slow!
Now on youtube!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSD6LlwS830
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Postby theUNYTEDone » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:48 am

Klas wrote:The car is 100% street legal with stock interior and I´m gonna keep it that way.


i thought lexan isn't street legal because of the way it shatters?
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Postby sleeper » Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:28 pm

it seems like EVERYTHING is leagal in sweden... :wink: (i need to move 100miles east.. :D )

klas: what have you done to your car? do you have some pictures of it?

if you have can you e-mail me?

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Postby Maloy » Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:09 pm

Are you putting a lexan windshield in? I know of someone around seattle that has lexan in their trac but not on the windshield...i think thats the only window thats illegal to use lexan.
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