MR2 better drag car than Alltrac?

Road race, Auto X, or the Drag Strip

Postby SuperWhite92 » Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:15 am

Mafix wrote:
SuperWhite92 wrote:You know that only a very very few 2nd generation DSM's have ever crankwalked when compared to how many are sold?

you might want to check your references...all 2nd gen turbo 4g63s have crank walk (minus the 99 model). and yes ALL of them.


All have the possibility, save the 98-99 models, in which they fixed the issue, but I'm saying the number that actually have crankwalked compared to the number that can. It's very very few, and is usually accompanied by other problems.
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Postby fhalperformance » Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:21 am

mitsubishi is said to have fixed this problem but ive heard of people with these new remanufactured motors having crank walk problems again, with some less than 2000 miles on the new motor. all have the possibility, it just happens quicker once you throw on aftermarket parts (clutch, whatever else contributes).
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Postby jlspec » Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:21 am

DSM are faster because their lighter. Example, two GSX, equal power. The one with a passager (about 140 lbs) is going to lose no matter what (both driver equal experince) . All-Trac is a little over 200 pounds compare to the eclipse. If you look at the numbers, the 4g63 stock boost is ~14psi giving 200hp. The 3SGTE boost ~8psi giving 200hp. Which is better? My guess, All-Trac 3SGTE.
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Postby alltracshoak » Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:22 am

is that so? i never knew that a stock eclipse would be boosting that much. so that means when my friend's gsx was racing, he was already at 14 psi.
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Postby 1BADGT4 » Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:24 pm

alltracshoak wrote:is that so? i never knew that a stock eclipse would be boosting that much. so that means when my friend's gsx was racing, he was already at 14 psi.


More than likely. They have smaller turbos that give them quick power ... but once your flying, the a-little-breathing-ct26 has the advantage.
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Postby RedCelicaTRD » Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:56 pm

The 14b is a better turbo then the ct-26 in every way. And you guys are missing the main way that DSMs are faster. It's not weight, All Tracs and AWD DSM's weight about the same. Its gearing. The final drive in an All Trac is about 3.9, in a DSM its about 4.9. That is a HUGE advantage. Any old school racer will tell you how changing the rear end gearing in thier Nova, Charger, Mustang, Camaro etc. made a huge difference and it still hold true today with any car. Of course we have a higher top speed, but how often do you peg out your speedo?
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Postby 2RM » Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:20 pm

The ST185 Alltrac is the best car I ever had And the only better car I will ever have is ST205 Thats all I have to say
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Postby 1BADGT4 » Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:12 pm

RedCelicaTRD wrote:The 14b is a better turbo then the ct-26 in every way. And you guys are missing the main way that DSMs are faster. It's not weight, All Tracs and AWD DSM's weight about the same. Its gearing. The final drive in an All Trac is about 3.9, in a DSM its about 4.9. That is a HUGE advantage. Any old school racer will tell you how changing the rear end gearing in thier Nova, Charger, Mustang, Camaro etc. made a huge difference and it still hold true today with any car. Of course we have a higher top speed, but how often do you peg out your speedo?


Ok, I think I might be refering to their 2g turbo .. the smaller one.

Aren't gt4s ~200#s heavier?

How / where could we get higher gearing?
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Postby RedCelicaTRD » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:06 pm

To me, 200lbs really isnt alot. Most of it is the stronger trans/chasis of the Celica. One possible way to get the lower gearing is to use the rav4 final drive. I'm not sure if it would work or not but the ratio is 4.9, right there with the DSM.

And yes, the t-25 turbos on the second gens are junk.
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Postby d1alltrac » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:44 pm

RedCelicaTRD wrote:The 14b is a better turbo then the ct-26 in every way. And you guys are missing the main way that DSMs are faster. It's not weight, All Tracs and AWD DSM's weight about the same. Its gearing. The final drive in an All Trac is about 3.9, in a DSM its about 4.9. That is a HUGE advantage. Any old school racer will tell you how changing the rear end gearing in thier Nova, Charger, Mustang, Camaro etc. made a huge difference and it still hold true today with any car. Of course we have a higher top speed, but how often do you peg out your speedo?


165's and regular 185's have 4.29 final drive and RC/CS has 3.93
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Postby SuperWhite92 » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:30 am

Seriously. It's not just one thing, and the 14b isn't any better than the CT26. They're both small. The only reason the 14b has gone faster is the number of people who are trying to do something different. The guy who's running 10's on a 14 isn't using a stock 14b, he's using a 14b with an enlarged turbine side from an 18g or 20g. Stock 14b has a 6cm^2 turbine side, and the top guy at least is using an 8cm^2, which will enable him to push the compressor even further out of efficiency and to not have the turbo become and exhaust restriction.

My theory as to why the DSM's are faster is stock for stock is their crazy ignition advance system. They run so much advance and wait to retard so long that they blow themselves up, but are very fast at the same time.
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Postby 1BADGT4 » Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:10 am

SuperWhite92 wrote:My theory as to why the DSM's are faster is stock for stock is their crazy ignition advance system. They run so much advance and wait to retard so long that they blow themselves up, but are very fast at the same time.


What do you mean on the crazy ign system? Do they have a much better ecu or ...?
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Postby SuperWhite92 » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:09 am

1BADGT4 wrote:
SuperWhite92 wrote:My theory as to why the DSM's are faster is stock for stock is their crazy ignition advance system. They run so much advance and wait to retard so long that they blow themselves up, but are very fast at the same time.


What do you mean on the crazy ign system? Do they have a much better ecu or ...?


In prime form (which may or may not happen) a 4G63 will attempt to advance the timing up to 40 something degrees over stock. It will wait until the knock sensor reads 4 counts of knock before it starts to consider pulling the timing. After that, there's a spectrum. Many DSM guys consider up to 8 counts of knock "normal" under load.
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Postby jlspec » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:42 pm

The Gallant VR-4, Mits Off-Road car with the same weight (mines a few pounds different) as the all-trac. It runs the quarter mile with the exact same time as ours. It has the same engine, drivetrian, and gear ratio as the eclipse GSX. Point is, since it weighs 200 lbs heavier then the eclipse being the same as ours, it runs just as fast as ours at 14psi. Ask any drag racer, 200 lbs will shave a good amount of time off your time slip.
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Postby Maloy » Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:45 pm

Well its pretty easy to shave 200 lbs off an all-trac.
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