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Re: Interested and eager to do autoX. LF info

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:41 am
by Mafix
With what mike said, autocross is 90% driver, 5%tires, 5 percent car.

Re: Interested and eager to do autoX. LF info

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:31 pm
by MWP
underscore wrote:
MWP wrote:For performance driving, stay away from Japanese and Asian made shocks.
American and European shocks are the best.


I'm sorry, but preferring something or discounting something else based on country of origin is the silliest thing you can do.


Yeah, it is a nasty generalisation, but when it comes to aftermarket dampers its pretty much true :(

Companies that sell coilover kits in the $1000-$2000 range are not stupid.
As long as the ride is firm, car rides lower, claim lots of adjustment, and the coilovers look bling, they will sell lots of them.
They enter car weight, damper stroke length, etc, into a spreadsheet and it pops out xxxx springs and xxx damper valving (if they even go that far).
If you think they even take slightly into account real suspension performance (ie, actually gives you extra grip), you are fooling yourself.
Im not saying those cheap coilovers wont give you extra cornering grip over stock, they may do, but it'll be far from ideal.

Re: Interested and eager to do autoX. LF info

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:33 pm
by MWP
Mafix wrote:With what mike said, autocross is 90% driver, 5%tires, 5 percent car.


Do a lap in a Alltrac, then a lap in a VW Beetle... i bet you there is more than 5% difference in times :twisted:

Re: Interested and eager to do autoX. LF info

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:38 pm
by Mafix
not what i meant. :rofl:
and i bet a new beetle stock for stock vs a 165 or 185...both turbos...my money is on the beetle. and i HATE vw group

Re: Interested and eager to do autoX. LF info

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:47 pm
by MWP
:)
Stock vs decent suspension in al Alltrac would make more than 5% difference.

Re: Interested and eager to do autoX. LF info

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:04 pm
by underscore
Only with a good driver though. A noob just needs suspension that isn't worn out and tires that aren't junk. Toss me on an AutoX course with my car set up the way it is now with the BC Racing coils, then send me out in the same car with whatever high end shock/spring setup you can think of and there's not going to be any significant difference in times. Do the same with a good driver and you'll get a difference, but again with AutoX it won't be massive.

Bear in mind AutoX is generally meant to be cheap, I doubt anyone aside from the very top drivers will be throwing a $5000 suspension setup into a car just for AutoX.

Re: Interested and eager to do autoX. LF info

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:09 am
by Mafix
Good driver vs bad driver in the same car. 90%.
I've seen race prepped cats loose to suburbans (yes autox, it happens)
I've seen great drivers use their beater instead and sell the race car
I've seen cars you'd never expect to be on top of pax there.
I've seen cobras raw time faster than karts (mind blown, cheater ass factory five)

The biggest difference is the driver. Plain and simple. The hardest nut to tighten is behind the steering wheel.

If the human factor wasn't in the mix, that changes everything.

Re: Interested and eager to do autoX. LF info

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:22 am
by TRDTurko
Mafix wrote:With what mike said, autocross is 90% driver, 5%tires, 5 percent car.


IMO tires are worth way more than 5%. a car with crappy all seasons will be miles slower than the same car with proper performance summer or race tires no matter who the driver is. A better driver will have less of a gap in times but when winning means 10ths of a second, whole seconds because of crap tires will put you way down in the order. That being said though I think its best to learn on whatever tires you have because you will learn faster with the tires amplifying your mistakes and not compensating for them.

I'd say its more like 80% driver, 15% tires, 5% car. First thing we always tell newbies locally is if you are going to put money into anything other than your own driving, get tires before doing anything else.

Re: Interested and eager to do autoX. LF info

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:52 am
by lumbercis
underscore wrote:According to one guys opinion, yes.


Yeah, the one guy with the DATA. I'll take that over 100 forum bro's opinions. :smokes:

Re: Interested and eager to do autoX. LF info

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:04 am
by underscore
lumbercis wrote:
underscore wrote:According to one guys opinion, yes.


Yeah, the one guy with the DATA. I'll take that over 100 forum bro's opinions. :smokes:


What data? The guy shows a couple dynos of his preferred brands but doesn't bother to post up any of the proof of his claims against other brands, nor does he bother to specify which brands/models had which faults. That's hardly useful data.

Re: Interested and eager to do autoX. LF info

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:26 pm
by Meenya
TRDTurko wrote:
Mafix wrote:With what mike said, autocross is 90% driver, 5%tires, 5 percent car.


IMO tires are worth way more than 5%. a car with crappy all seasons will be miles slower than the same car with proper performance summer or race tires no matter who the driver is. A better driver will have less of a gap in times but when winning means 10ths of a second, whole seconds because of crap tires will put you way down in the order. That being said though I think its best to learn on whatever tires you have because you will learn faster with the tires amplifying your mistakes and not compensating for them.

I'd say its more like 80% driver, 15% tires, 5% car. First thing we always tell newbies locally is if you are going to put money into anything other than your own driving, get tires before doing anything else.



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