against a wrx..

theUNYTEDone

Moderator
SuperWhite92":swlengxy said:
My mods consist of: MBC@14.7psi, ARC TMIC, KO DP, 46 Trim CT26, and I can take out any WRX that hasn't yet recieved a bigger turbo.

NICE! i should be able to take them out upon the purchase of an MBC.

forgive me for this ultra-newbish question, but do EMS' controll boost, or just fuel stuff?
 

omnivore

New member
I hate reading this. At 12 psi, an AT won't even hang with a WRX? That's a disappointment to me, seeing as I am looking into buying one. My current car (Dodge Omni Turbo) eats WRX's alive. They'll get me acrss an intersection, but once I am 1/2 way tru 2nd, they are reeled back in, and by 3rd, they are diappearing behind me.

Also, I keep hearing that 15-16 psi is the max for these cars. Is that because of the fuel system's limitaions, or the turbo's? I know my own car's stock Garrett turbo can pound out over 25 psi, and I have been running it at 17-18 psi for years...the 1st 3 of which I surged the hell out of it with no BOV (turbo dodge intercooled cars didn't come with BOV's till '90), then finally I added a TurboXS one.
 

Maloy

New member
Those dodge omni's are light and fast, not much of a comparison for an all-trac out of the box. My good buddy has a shelby charger turbo, its very fast. Is yours a shelby?
Anyway i took down a few wrx's in my st165 before i spun a rod bearing. The only time i ever tried was off the line though. It was real easy to launch her at around 5k. I left the wrx's at the light and they never caught up. heres the mods i had that i can remember off the top of my head

Ported and polished head/intake manifold
60-1 trim ct-26
MBC ball and spring type set at 10psi
ACT heavy duty clutch
Straight cold air intake
battery in boot
gutted cats
audi radiator for my intercooler pump running constantly
T-vis delete
paxton FPR
seems like im forgetting some things, probably unimportant/irrelevent
 

theUNYTEDone

Moderator
Maloy":11hj1en6 said:
Those dodge omni's are light and fast, not much of a comparison for an all-trac out of the box. My good buddy has a shelby charger turbo, its very fast. Is yours a shelby?
Anyway i took down a few wrx's in my st165 before i spun a rod bearing. The only time i ever tried was off the line though. It was real easy to launch her at around 5k. I left the wrx's at the light and they never caught up. heres the mods i had that i can remember off the top of my head

Ported and polished head/intake manifold
60-1 trim ct-26
MBC ball and spring type set at 10psi
ACT heavy duty clutch
Straight cold air intake
battery in boot
gutted cats
audi radiator for my intercooler pump running constantly
T-vis delete
paxton FPR
seems like im forgetting some things, probably unimportant/irrelevent

Maloy, did you notice any issues with having your T-VIS gone?

and @ omnivore,our limiting factor is the headgasket, and our internals, wastegate and the stock turbo itself.
 

omnivore

New member
O ringing may be an easy answer to HG failure, no?
And do you mean the stock internals (pistons/rods) aren't capable of reliably hanging in there at 12 seconds or faster?
I already assumed the turbo was a weak point....maybe the Greddy upgrade would be a good one, with a ported exh. manifold, and FMIC?

Also, I don't know enough about MAF cars-all my turbo cars have been speed density so far.
How does one go about adding fuel to the MAF tuned cars when running 15-20 psi, thru an upgraded turbo?
 

theUNYTEDone

Moderator
omnivore":26pcek0q said:
O ringing may be an easy answer to HG failure, no?
And do you mean the stock internals (pistons/rods) aren't capable of reliably hanging in there at 12 seconds or faster?
I already assumed the turbo was a weak point....maybe the Greddy upgrade would be a good one, with a ported exh. manifold, and FMIC?

Also, I don't know enough about MAF cars-all my turbo cars have been speed density so far.
How does one go about adding fuel to the MAF tuned cars when running 15-20 psi, thru an upgraded turbo?

bigger injectors/bigger flowing fuel pump.

turbo upgrades/fmic usually go hand in hand. as far as our stock all trac internals go, not too sure how much HP they're good for.

theres much debate about manifolds here. apparently the stocker is good for about 400hp, and i've not seen dyno proof that a tubular one is worth any horsepower. there are of course, heads that butt over the matter. i'm just looking for someone to have their tubular manifold on and notice SOME gain, with SOME longivity coming out of that manifold so i can put mine in. hehe. it's shiny!
 

Razzo

New member
there have been a couple mr2s that put down around 300-350rwhp so my guess is around 400 at the crank, which is about 275awhp. I'm not to sure what the pistons can handle thou. I really have no idea what happends when you push the 3sgte to its limits, anybody? what causes all the failure?
 

Gary

Moderator
Is the 3SGTE head gasket really weak?
Jeff Fazio was pushing 440 rwhp @ 22 psi (MR2) on stock 200k miles engine.
That engine have seen 28 psi and 140+ mph in 1/4.
So, compare that to the HG on 7mgte.
Any way, headgasket should be the weakest point in your engine.

Al this is a good read:
http://gtfour.ca/howtoblowyourengine.html
 

d1alltrac

Active member
the head gasket weakness can easily be solved with a cometic, TTE, or HKS MHG.

and the weak-point for the internals is the pistons, they are cast but the stock crank and rods are forged.
 

theUNYTEDone

Moderator
Gary":2ukc8wm9 said:
Is the 3SGTE head gasket really weak?
Jeff Fazio was pushing 440 rwhp @ 22 psi (MR2) on stock 200k miles engine.
That engine have seen 28 psi and 140+ mph in 1/4.
So, compare that to the HG on 7mgte.
Any way, headgasket should be the weakest point in your engine.

Al this is a good read:
http://gtfour.ca/howtoblowyourengine.html

:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

i wasn't sure as to HOW reliable everything was. apparently the HG is quite sturdy. and i suppose if the stocker is so good, then you should have internals able to amount up to it, in terms of power, no?
 

Maloy

New member
theUNYTEDone":7et3cu25 said:
Maloy":7et3cu25 said:
Those dodge omni's are light and fast, not much of a comparison for an all-trac out of the box. My good buddy has a shelby charger turbo, its very fast. Is yours a shelby?
Anyway i took down a few wrx's in my st165 before i spun a rod bearing. The only time i ever tried was off the line though. It was real easy to launch her at around 5k. I left the wrx's at the light and they never caught up. heres the mods i had that i can remember off the top of my head

Ported and polished head/intake manifold
60-1 trim ct-26
MBC ball and spring type set at 10psi
ACT heavy duty clutch
Straight cold air intake
battery in boot
gutted cats
audi radiator for my intercooler pump running constantly
T-vis delete
paxton FPR
seems like im forgetting some things, probably unimportant/irrelevent

Maloy, did you notice any issues with having your T-VIS gone?

and @ omnivore,our limiting factor is the headgasket, and our internals, wastegate and the stock turbo itself.

Its hard to say because the car came without T-Vis, but it seemed to have real good low end power. It used to be Rob Files car (well known over at mr2oc.com) and he did that mod. The head and manifold was pretty bored out. I can take pics of it as its not on the car right now if anyone is that interested.
Everyone always talks about how laggy the 60-1 trim is but it seemed fine to me, i hit 10psi by at least 3500rpm.
 

Maloy

New member
Wow, my bad. I forgot to post pics. My camera broke so i had to use my cell phone to take some pretty low quality pics. You should still be able to get the idea.


The ported intake manifold is on the right, its pretty hard to see with this pics but the one on the right has much larger ports.


Yet another crappy pic, here is the intake side of my cylinder head.



this one turned out a little better


and my hogged out ct-26


It almost makes me wonder what the guy who did all this to the engine was thinking. Everything iv read tells me there was no reason for all the porting that was done especially at the power levels i was at. The fuel system was not upgraded at all except for the paxton FPR. Although i havent opened the gas tank up but i doubt it has a supra or walbro pump because the injectors were still 440cc. Even with all this said i know that the guy who owned it is well know for being very knowledgable (dont mind the spelling) over at mr2oc.com. It all just seems like an @ss backwards way of getting power.
 

Razzo

New member
Maloy":dkyuqpml said:
theUNYTEDone":dkyuqpml said:
Maloy":dkyuqpml said:
Those dodge omni's are light and fast, not much of a comparison for an all-trac out of the box. My good buddy has a shelby charger turbo, its very fast. Is yours a shelby?
Anyway i took down a few wrx's in my st165 before i spun a rod bearing. The only time i ever tried was off the line though. It was real easy to launch her at around 5k. I left the wrx's at the light and they never caught up. heres the mods i had that i can remember off the top of my head

Ported and polished head/intake manifold
60-1 trim ct-26
MBC ball and spring type set at 10psi
ACT heavy duty clutch
Straight cold air intake
battery in boot
gutted cats
audi radiator for my intercooler pump running constantly
T-vis delete
paxton FPR
seems like im forgetting some things, probably unimportant/irrelevent

Maloy, did you notice any issues with having your T-VIS gone?

and @ omnivore,our limiting factor is the headgasket, and our internals, wastegate and the stock turbo itself.

Its hard to say because the car came without T-Vis, but it seemed to have real good low end power. It used to be Rob Files car (well known over at mr2oc.com) and he did that mod. The head and manifold was pretty bored out. I can take pics of it as its not on the car right now if anyone is that interested.
Everyone always talks about how laggy the 60-1 trim is but it seemed fine to me, i hit 10psi by at least 3500rpm.

well a 60-1 trim is pretty laggy, if you look into the gt series turbos, the gt28r, is fully spooled at what 2500rpms, with a stock wastegate running around 14psi.so 14psi at 2500rpms, heck thats what my ct-26 does and its small compared to the gt28r+++ models
 

Razzo

New member
sorry double post. stuiped of me, guess thats what happends when you work 16 hours then get totally ripped with your boss. Heck itleast he pitched on the whole sess :D
 

SuperWhite92

New member
Razzo":1yd8s392 said:
Maloy":1yd8s392 said:
theUNYTEDone":1yd8s392 said:
Maloy":1yd8s392 said:
Those dodge omni's are light and fast, not much of a comparison for an all-trac out of the box. My good buddy has a shelby charger turbo, its very fast. Is yours a shelby?
Anyway i took down a few wrx's in my st165 before i spun a rod bearing. The only time i ever tried was off the line though. It was real easy to launch her at around 5k. I left the wrx's at the light and they never caught up. heres the mods i had that i can remember off the top of my head

Ported and polished head/intake manifold
60-1 trim ct-26
MBC ball and spring type set at 10psi
ACT heavy duty clutch
Straight cold air intake
battery in boot
gutted cats
audi radiator for my intercooler pump running constantly
T-vis delete
paxton FPR
seems like im forgetting some things, probably unimportant/irrelevent

Maloy, did you notice any issues with having your T-VIS gone?

and @ omnivore,our limiting factor is the headgasket, and our internals, wastegate and the stock turbo itself.

Its hard to say because the car came without T-Vis, but it seemed to have real good low end power. It used to be Rob Files car (well known over at mr2oc.com) and he did that mod. The head and manifold was pretty bored out. I can take pics of it as its not on the car right now if anyone is that interested.
Everyone always talks about how laggy the 60-1 trim is but it seemed fine to me, i hit 10psi by at least 3500rpm.

well a 60-1 trim is pretty laggy, if you look into the gt series turbos, the gt28r, is fully spooled at what 2500rpms, with a stock wastegate running around 14psi.so 14psi at 2500rpms, heck thats what my ct-26 does and its small compared to the gt28r+++ models

Agreed. I'm pulling a full 18psi by around 3200rpm with a 46 Trim Upgrade (Pre CT27, trust me). If you're only getting 10psi boost at 3500rpm with a CT26, it's horribly imbalanced with a too-large compressor wheel. That's not much spool for such a bitch turbo.
 

Maloy

New member
Wow 18psi at 3200 rpm is pretty impressive. That all puts it into perspective. Im thinking more and more of getting a SB kit pretty soon. Would a stroker motor do much better of a job at spooling a 50 trim, then a normal 3s? Or should i just go ahead and get the 46?
 

SuperWhite92

New member
Maloy":3fqqg532 said:
Wow 18psi at 3200 rpm is pretty impressive. That all puts it into perspective. Im thinking more and more of getting a SB kit pretty soon. Would a stroker motor do much better of a job at spooling a 50 trim, then a normal 3s? Or should i just go ahead and get the 46?

It depends on what kind of power you're looking at. Either would work well. As far as a stroker goes, it will shift the entire powerband down in the RPM range, which will increase spool time a little bit, but unless you build the head to help it flow, a stroker will also run out of power sooner than a non-stroker. I wouldn't bother unless you also have some money to throw at the head.
 

Maloy

New member
I was planning on throwing probably 2k into the top end, maybe some 264 cams. Im trying to aim more at autocross more then anything so i want low end power for sure. I already have a 2nd gen short block and a camry 5s crank, i still need to get pistons and rods and all the hardware.
I just know that everyone suggests the 46 trim but iv never heard how well the 50 spools on a stroker.
 
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