Owner of 1989 Celica turbo 4wd

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Owner of 1989 Celica turbo 4wd

Postby Jorshman » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:24 am

hey guys, My name's josh, i live up in the Canadian Rockies, and i have an st165, that i'm currently taking apart. Bought it with a blown turbo, replaced it with an MR2 CT26, but the waste gate actuator didn't fit properly, and the way i had to install it, caused it to run too much boost, and it blew the headgasket. I changed that out, with MLS and ARPs, and 2000 kms down the road i spun a few rodbearings. I Changed out the rod bearings through the oilpan, and the knock persists. I finally have a garage to work in, so i'm pulling the motor, and plan to go full rally car with it.
the idea of doing a 5sgte is something that interests me greatly, and was just wondering if this is something you've seen done with the ST165, and if you'd have any input on making this swap successful. I would really like to get 350-400 horsepower all day long, which is very doable, i think, with a 5sgte, as i've seen them dyno'd at over 700 to the wheels. Please tell me i'm not crazy :D

So far i'm thinking

-get an old 98 5SFE block machined and cleaned
-Forged pistons and rods
-ACL race bearings
-beefier bearing caps
-bigger injectors?
-race style fuel pump?
-is there anything i'm missing?
I'm a bit of a noob, but i've dreamed of this for 2 years now, and i've done as much research as i could, but it's very difficult to find anything done with this chassis and engine, as they're pretty dang rare now a days.
I'm not sure if i'd run the original ECU from the 1st gen 3sgte, or if i'd even be able to use a 2nd or 3rd gen ECU on that particular engine. If i can upgrade the ECU would i need the matching wiring harness to fit it? Does the awd transmission on the alltrac work with a 5s block? I've read about ways to hack the 1st gen ECU to boost and fuel cut at higher PSI's so i can run more boost, but if i'm looking for 300+ horsepower should i be looking into bigger turbos?
This is my first boosted car, and my first engine re and re, and i'm about as excited to get balls deep into it, as i am terrified. Please get back to me with your 2 cents, tell me if you think i'm retarded for even attempting this, but please give me a good reason why, I'm excited to hear back from yas.

~Josh
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Re: Owner of 1989 Celica turbo 4wd

Postby ChrisD » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:55 pm

Hey Josh! Where abouts are you? The short answer is that yes it is totally possible, I have done it with my 165. I will take a read through and give you the long answer from my point of view in a bit when I have a few minutes. Talk soon!

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1988 ST165
1994 ST205 WRC
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Re: Owner of 1989 Celica turbo 4wd

Postby zaluss » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:58 pm

I think you just need to grind the back of the block a little to clear the AWD trans.

Chris should be able to give you plenty of info on this.

Also ATS racing does a build shortblock using the 5SFE http://www.atsracing.net/Parts/Index/ATS23STROKER
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Re: Owner of 1989 Celica turbo 4wd

Postby underscore » Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:53 pm

A few people have done it, as far as engine install goes I don't think there's much difference between the generations so if someone's done it to a 185 or 205 it's gonna work on a 165. That said if you're changing anything that significantly you're going to need an aftermarket ECU, which is going to need to be tuned by someone. Find the person you trust to do the tuning before picking an ECU, as there's no use installing a system that can only be tuned properly by someone halfway across the continent.
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Build thread http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=44216
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Re: Owner of 1989 Celica turbo 4wd

Postby Jorshman » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:27 pm

ChrisD wrote:Hey Josh! Where abouts are you? The short answer is that yes it is totally possible, I have done it with my 165. I will take a read through and give you the long answer from my point of view in a bit when I have a few minutes. Talk soon!

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I'm in Cranbrook, BC, i creeped ya and see you're in calgary, which is cool, because that's only a few hours away. I've so far just removed the W/A Intercooler and the alternator, planning on doing a haggard garage style video blog on the progress. I'd like to include all the nitty gritty details, as there's just not a lot of videos about this car
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Re: Owner of 1989 Celica turbo 4wd

Postby ChrisD » Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:30 pm

Love the video idea, go for it!

You seem to have the general idea.

Block: as mentioned above, you'll need to grind down some of the ribs for the transfer case to clear. I posted a few pics in my project thread, and this thread was another good resource too. One tip, when you are test fitting the block on the transmission, test it with the clutch on. I had to grind a bit more down after the fact as I couldn't get the clearance that I had before to get it around with my clutch on. I like to bore the block with a torque plate. There are quite a few odd things to deal with, like selecting the proper water pump, water lines, oil cooler setup, etc.

Bearing caps: keep with the OEM ones, no need to get upgraded ones. Aftermarket would also necessitate a line bore, which you'd avoid unless it was really required.

350-400HP: I assume you mean at the wheels?

Fuel: definitely need some work here. A Walbro 400 works well. Injectors, at that power level I'd look in the 800-1000cc range. If you are using the gen 1 head, have to research which injectors fit that rail. The rail itself is pretty good. Gen 2/3 heads are a bit different and have lower flowing rails.

ECU: at 350-400 you'll need one...actually as soon as you get past the stock injectors you will. So yes that's where some of the costs start to rise, so you may have to look at your goals and decide what it's worth. For me, on a 5SGTE I would. The alternative would be to do things incrementally and see how you like it. Might not want to go bigger in the end.

Turbo: yes, definitely be looking at bigger turbos. Depends on your exact goals for which one to choose. Might be able to be happy with a CT27 from ATS or CT20b up to around 320 at the wheels...at the high end.

Supporting things: intercooling would need improvement, cams help a lot to get there, exhaust of course, intake manifold can help quite a bit. Maintenance very important, lots of little things once you are into it.

So...if you can get a bit more specific on your end goal in whp, intended use, budget, timeline, etc. we can definitely give more feedback. You're not crazy, has definitely been done before. I've got one in my car, albeit not running yet but will by spring.

Also, we plan a big meet every August out in Vernon, you should plan to come out!
1988 ST165
1994 ST205 WRC
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Re: Owner of 1989 Celica turbo 4wd

Postby scottinalaska » Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:32 am

Do not think your 165 transmission will hold this power. Find a 205 Transmission or the 185 RC version. It has all the upgrades the 205 got, I believe. It would be a shame to keep breaking your 165 transmission if you could just get a solid one first. My 2 cents.
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