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3sgte JDM or USDM???

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:47 pm
by celiman05
i have a quick couple questions. im putting a 3sgte in my front wheel drive celica. i bought the motor a while back, and whoever i bought the thing from, cut everything. how can i tell if the motor i have is JDM or USDM? i also dont know which year it is (and i know 90/91 and 92/93 have some differences), and whether it is out of an MR2 or an Alltrac. is there a serial number i can go by? i need to know this so i can continue with my swap, and do so correctly.

also, how can i tell whether it has an AFM or a MAP sensor? cuz that too is M.I.A.

plese help.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:59 pm
by Speedricer
Do you know what year/ gen the engine is?
What kind of intercooler does it have?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:05 am
by smog7
lets see, if its has the egr stuff then its usdm... if it has a 9 bolt manifold then its a 92/93, 7 bolt 90/91.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:40 am
by celiman05
i know for sure its a 2nd gen. with the air/air top mount. sorry i forgot to add that. and it doesnt have the EGR stuff, so that must make it a JDM.

ok cool, now how about either MR2 or Alltrac? any easy ways to tell that?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:55 am
by grip addict
if the alternator is on the top it's an alltrac. bottom- mr2

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:51 am
by Gary
^^^
Add to that, MR2 oil pan has oil level sensor bung.
The badge on the intake manifold is "up side down", relatively saying :lol:

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:30 pm
by celiman05
alternator is on top, and i dont believe it has an oil level sensor. must be an alltrac. now how can i tell if it has an AFM or MAP? the 90/91 had the AFM correct?

now to throw something else out there. how about the ECU? how can i tell what that is from?

thank you everyone so far for all the help.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:18 am
by alltracman78
smog7 wrote:if it has a 9 bolt manifold then its a 92/93, 7 bolt 90/91.


Not true.
Most 92s most likely have 7 bolt manifolds.
Both of my 92s, my 2 RC engines, and several other 92s I have seen all have had 7 bolt manifolds.
In fact, the only 9 bolt manifold I've seen in person that I can recall is off my 93.
This doesn't mean there aren't any 92s with 9 bolt manifolds, but my guess is the majority have 7 bolt.

The ECU part # will tell you what year and version ECU it is.
It doesn't mean the engine is the same, I've seen several instances where JDM engines came with different ECUs than they originally had.

Any Gen II ECU can power any Gen II 3SGTE, you just want to have the matching wiring harness [you can repin, mod one of the others, it's just more work], though you might have problems powering some MR2s with a ST185 ECU.

You can tell the engine revision by several things.
Pre revision has a round type knock sensor connector, post has a more rectangular one.
Post has a throttle opener on the TB, pre has none.
Pre has a rectangular 3 pin connector at the alt [the alt has it's own short harness], post has a triangular one.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:56 am
by etantshi
alltracman78 wrote:
smog7 wrote:if it has a 9 bolt manifold then its a 92/93, 7 bolt 90/91.


Not true.
Most 92s most likely have 7 bolt manifolds.
Both of my 92s, my 2 RC engines, and several other 92s I have seen all have had 7 bolt manifolds.
In fact, the only 9 bolt manifold I've seen in person that I can recall is off my 93.
This doesn't mean there aren't any 92s with 9 bolt manifolds, but my guess is the majority have 7 bolt.


I've noticed this also, which is why the knock sensor is the best way to tell.

The gen II 3sgte uses map and maf sensors.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:36 pm
by Hotrodhendrix
My 92/93 JDM 3s has a 9 bolt head but has the 7bolt manifold. :shrug:

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:51 pm
by celiman05
well guess the manifold is'nt a sure fire way to tell. :doh: im gonna look at it tommorrow and try to figure all of this out.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:06 am
by celiman05
well i checked it out today and:
-the manifold is a 7 bolt (which i guess really has no significants).
-the Alt. is on top and has its own harness with the rectangular 3 pin connector.
-the "TOYOTA" on the valve cover is backwards, but the "badge" on the intake manifold reads forward.

-the ECU has a couple different numbers on it. on the red sticker the number reads: 89661-20750. i did a search and found that the ECU is from an Alltrac also. :D

from what i can tell i have a pre 93, 2nd gen JDM 3sgte from an alltrac. CORRECT?

i have an issue unfortunatley. on the wiring diagrams that i have, it shows an AFM with four wires going to it. the diagram that i have is most likely from an USDM because it is from a shop CD. i have a JDM motor and harness.
above someone mentioned that the 2nd gen uses a MAP sensor, but on the USDM diagrams, there is no option for a MAP, only an AFM. could this be due to it being a USDM diagram?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:57 am
by Gary
Your ECU is most likely from early years JDM ST185 (89-90)
Check the distributor cap. If should be a non-clip type.

The 1st and 2nd gen use AFM to measure air flow.
They also have a MAP sensor to measure boost for safety purpose (fuel cut).

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:22 pm
by Hotrodhendrix
Also check the bolt guider thingies in the valve cover. They go under ther bracket for the throttle body. If there is two cylinders then its 90-91 and if there is one figure 8 its 92-93.

For jdm vs usdm
I would look for the EGR system off the right side of the intake manifold. If there is nothing at all just a flat surface its jdm. If it does have egr or it has some kind of block off plates its usdm.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:18 am
by mike325ci
celiman05 wrote:with the air/air top mount.

top mount? 100% celica. mr2's intercoolers are off to the side to the side scoops, with the associated longer pipes to relocate them there.

anyways, my suggestion, seeing how you don't know that much about the engine-- would be to get a full uncut clip and do the swap. because it is going to be painful and long and complicated and full of frustrations and most likely never get finished because of the time and work involved. trust me. i know that's not what you wanna hear, but i am being a total realist. you could prove me wrong, but most often than not, something like this will prove to be a long and arduous path... all the luck in the world to you for making it happen.