How much effort and cost goes into making an st185 fast?

General Chat

Re: How much effort and cost goes into making an st185 fast?

Postby kilt88 » Wed May 15, 2013 8:12 pm

ellover009, where are you located? I'm sure someone can give you a ride and let you drive one.
Members don't see the above ad. Register now - it's free!
Josh
from 185 Performance, many moons ago
92 ST185
Current Project http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=46970
Duluth, GA
User avatar
kilt88
Club Member
 
Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:11 pm
Location: Duluth, GA

Re: How much effort and cost goes into making an st185 fast?

Postby ellover009 » Wed May 15, 2013 9:26 pm

kilt88 wrote:I'll bite...

How about you first tell us your idea of "fast".


I would say fast is anything under 5 1/2 -6 sec 0-60 acceleration.
anything under 5 sec is really fast.

Gearing and engines thou make a difference, 04 forester xt auto will destroy a lot of things at 0-60 and then after that due to the short gearing it runs out of steam fast.

Kilt88, I am in Haverhill, MA.
ellover009
Club Member
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:18 am

Re: How much effort and cost goes into making an st185 fast?

Postby polm » Thu May 16, 2013 3:18 pm

ellover009 wrote:
kilt88 wrote:I'll bite...

How about you first tell us your idea of "fast".


I would say fast is anything under 5 1/2 -6 sec 0-60 acceleration.
anything under 5 sec is really fast.

Gearing and engines thou make a difference, 04 forester xt auto will destroy a lot of things at 0-60 and then after that due to the short gearing it runs out of steam fast.

Kilt88, I am in Haverhill, MA.

To do 0-60 in under 6 secs you'd be looking at an exhaust, a downpipe (or you can decat the stock downpipe), a boost controller and a fuel cut defender. Run 14 psi on your stock turbo and your good to go. Get the ebay exhaust http://www.ebay.ca/itm/OBX-Catback-Exha ... 78&vxp=mtr an ebay downpipe http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Toyota-MR2-Celic ... c6&vxp=mtr a manual boost controller (they're like 20$) and make your own fuel cut defender for like 5$: http://www.surrealmirage.com/vrg3/fcd/ and that's it...I have an ebay exhaust and downpipe. The exhaust is made by motoria and the quality is great. You can't beat the price. The downpipe is made cheaper but it's holding up great, for the price you really can't complain. So it all depends on what is cheap for you, but this to me seems like a pretty easy way to achieve your goal. Oh and don't forget the wideband to monitor the Air/fuel ratio and the boost gauge, these are crucial (and not that expensive)!
Cheers!
User avatar
polm
Club Member
 
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:09 pm
Location: Somewhere in Quebec, yes I speak french!

1992 Toyota Celica

Re: How much effort and cost goes into making an st185 fast?

Postby mike325ci » Thu May 16, 2013 3:43 pm

short answer is, you have to absolutely love these cars and having something that is (relatively speaking) unique and rare. if that matters to you, then you will put in the (lots of) time and (even more) money and love to make them "fast."

if not, if absolute performance or power or handling or weight or whatever measure you choose is more important, then this is the wrong place to be, this is the wrong car to start with.

read that over again. trust me. this is a labor of love, not logic...


if i wanted a fast car, my ST185 is not the answer. but that's not why i drive/own/love it.
NYC, NY, USA
Teal '92 ST185 (Current), Black '88 ST165 (Sold)
Image
Founder, Kabiela - DIY & Enthusiast Marketplace (diybuysell.com)
User avatar
mike325ci
Gold Member
 
Posts: 1552
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:19 pm
Location: Manhattan (NYC), NY

Re: How much effort and cost goes into making an st185 fast?

Postby celigts » Thu May 16, 2013 4:29 pm

Haha yea if I wanted power and lighter, if have got a 240sx a long time ago and not bothered with this lovely heavy monster.

I've sunk alot into this car and doesn't show at all. I have it t be out of the norm and it TRUELLY is. Our local group just had a meet and had over 200 cars... I have yet to see a 185 join besides "stubble" who doesn't post on here anymore who has his dd Alltrac. 3 other gt4's that I knew of but who knows if there around.

Get a subby if you want cheaper, larger selection parts. Not for me!
91 Celica Alltrac - Parts pile pending instal :P
3SGTE project motor very slow
Intake/Heat shield project slowly moving
Winnipegs respected TTI forum. join and love the community will welcome you with open arms and legs ? http://toptierimports.com/
User avatar
celigts
Established Member
 
Posts: 1660
Images: 0
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:03 pm

Re: How much effort and cost goes into making an st185 fast?

Postby kilt88 » Thu May 16, 2013 8:49 pm

Ya, I agree with the others about the increased level of effort required to modify these cars. But it's never really bothered me, since I quite enjoy driving something different than everyone else -- something rare. Out of all the cars that showed up at the Wed night drag strip test-and-tune last night, only 3 Toyotas ... 2 ma70, 1 jza80. I was so tired of all the WRXs and Mustangs ... ugh. How cool it will be when I roll up in an st185.

But if you start going for bigger power, say 500 hp+, then I would say it's not a lot different than what the STi or Evo guys have to deal with. We all have to upgrade fuel systems, internals (possibly), engine management, intercooling, etc. Sure, those guys have so many more choices, but compared with what I saw when I got into this st185 crowd in 2000, there are real, orderable parts these days. We can buy off-the-shelf turbo kits (ATS, PE, GReddy), exhaust/intake manifolds, fuel rails, fmic kits, suspension, pnp standalone ecu (Vipec). All it takes is money and patience.

See if you can get a ride in a mildly modified st185, like was mentioned above.... full exhaust, fuel cut override, boost at about 14psi, some decent suspension upgrades. You may find that you just love it!
Josh
from 185 Performance, many moons ago
92 ST185
Current Project http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=46970
Duluth, GA
User avatar
kilt88
Club Member
 
Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:11 pm
Location: Duluth, GA

Re: How much effort and cost goes into making an st185 fast?

Postby sentraman » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:16 pm

Effort isnt so bad, it's more of the cost. Here is my list of what it cost me to make 400awhp

Bought a used built 3sgte (6k miles) $1800
Trackforged turbo kit (Brand new) $3200
AEM ems ($1500 New)
ID 1000cc injectors ($350 used)
Fuel Rail $150
Aeromotive 340 fuel pump ($150)
04' Forester XT
sentraman
Club Member
 
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:57 am
Location: Portland, Or

Re: How much effort and cost goes into making an st185 fast?

Postby bmt » Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:56 am

My 2 cents. If you want a cheap car to modify Gt 4/Alltracs aren't what you want.

If you want a "fast" car, go drive what you can in your budget and then decide.

If you like an Alltrac St185 and want an education buy one.

When I started my car, (St165), I knew I was going to modify it and burn money, but I told myself I would learn a lot, (I have) and the money is just a vacation I never took. :D

Cheers
Living the good life in New Zealand!!
bmt
Club Member
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:01 am

Re: How much effort and cost goes into making an st185 fast?

Postby mx6er2587 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:48 am

sentraman wrote:Effort isnt so bad, it's more of the cost. Here is my list of what it cost me to make 400awhp

Bought a used built 3sgte (6k miles) $1800
Trackforged turbo kit (Brand new) $3200
AEM ems ($1500 New)
ID 1000cc injectors ($350 used)
Fuel Rail $150
Aeromotive 340 fuel pump ($150)



See the thing is though thats pretty damn cheap. Not as cheap as a chevy 350, but if you ask what it costs to get a 240sx, eclipse, a honda, etc RELIABLY to 400 whp its going to ring up to a similar number. Its not even fair to add the WRX's Evo's and their ilk in the comparison because you just built your 400hp alltrac for what it would cost to just buy a stock vehicle.

I'm sick of people bitching about how hard and how expensive it is to make these things fast. Its just not.
mx6er2587
Established Member
 
Posts: 1162
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:08 am
Location: Pittsburgh PA

Re: How much effort and cost goes into making an st185 fast?

Postby DeeCee » Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:44 pm

wheres the FPR, intercooler, intercooler piping, cost of tune, CAI or pod, turbo oil feed and drain, plugs, map sensor and other bits and bobs in between? $1800 for a built engine is a bloody good deal, but whats the spec on it? Cams, pulleys, new oil/water pumps, new pistons, new rods, thermostat, etc? a 'built engine' would cost a hell of a lot more than $1800 if you went shopping and outsourced the build.

I'm not saying that the cost is too low or out of the park. There are a lot of ancillaries which people don't account for on any engine. You drop $10k on engine upgrades and you should be getting some decent power, but then again, its all the extra costs to support that engine.

Then consider the brake upgrade because the factory brakes are shit, the 20+ year old suspension wobbles like jelly and bushes which are like marshmellows.

There is a lot more than pure engine power for a car to go fast.

If people are willing, we could do a retail price list and breakdown the specific costs to get an engine with a nominal goal in mind eg 300, 350, 400whp to give an overview. Lists aren't hard, but IMO its around the detail and abilities of the car owner to do work or to account for labour.
GT Four Adovansu "I want to enjoy the powerful and nimble agility behavior."

Image

Elephant: http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26687
User avatar
DeeCee
Established Member
 
Posts: 1135
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:41 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: How much effort and cost goes into making an st185 fast?

Postby sentraman » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:18 pm

Well I didn't add most thos elittle bits, because when you buy a Trackforged turbo kit from us, it's included like: oil return, oil feed lines, water feed, water return, restrictor and a lifetime warranty on the manifold.

Generally buying an AEM or other tuning device new from the place your going to tune with, will give you a price break on the first initial tune.

Our built engine consisted of:

HKS 272 cams
HKS cam gears
Shimless bucket conversion
Manley rods
JE pistons
Balanced crank
Headgasket
TRD thermostat
Modified oil pump
ARP mains and studs
ARP rod bolts
and some other goodies

Intercooler kit can be made depending on centerfeed or sidefeed. You can run just about any intercooler core you want. Depending on your budget and what works for you.


If you want to get decent pricing on parts pm me, I am a precision dealer, also have accounts everywhere, we also build a turbo kit which is already on a car, and we build mid-pipes as well.
04' Forester XT
sentraman
Club Member
 
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:57 am
Location: Portland, Or

Re: How much effort and cost goes into making an st185 fast?

Postby Sifu » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:21 pm

If I wanted an sti I would have bought an sti.
There are plenty of other cars I could get that would be faster stock and modified but then it wouldn't be an Alltrac. It's a money pit, it's old it's slower than most modern cars but its a Alltrac.
1990 Celica ST185 "The Money Pit"
Image
BROKEN! BUT NOT BEATEN!
2005 Scion tC FW21
1985 AW11
1987 AW11
User avatar
Sifu
GTFour God
 
Posts: 3041
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:08 pm
Location: Savage Bowels of MN

Re: How much effort and cost goes into making an st185 fast?

Postby underscore » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:07 pm

Even as a "money pit" though, I'd say they're a lot cheaper than modifying a newer car. I've got less into my GTFour than it would cost me to buy a new base model Yaris. I could maybe get an older (early-mid 2000's) STi for that but then it's rolling right into the age where lots of expensive bits start to go. Anything newer will cost even more, and anything older really isn't any different from an Alltrac as far as what it will take to get it back into good shape, though I've noticed Alltracs tend to be a bit more prone to neglected maintenance than other cars.
★ 1991 GTFour RC ~ "Rebel Scum" ★
It's for sale! http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=52181
Build thread http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=44216
underscore
GTFour God
 
Posts: 3809
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:29 pm
Location: Kelowna, BC

Re: How much effort and cost goes into making an st185 fast?

Postby polm » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:39 am

underscore wrote:Even as a "money pit" though, I'd say they're a lot cheaper than modifying a newer car. I've got less into my GTFour than it would cost me to buy a new base model Yaris. I could maybe get an older (early-mid 2000's) STi for that but then it's rolling right into the age where lots of expensive bits start to go. Anything newer will cost even more, and anything older really isn't any different from an Alltrac as far as what it will take to get it back into good shape, though I've noticed Alltracs tend to be a bit more prone to neglected maintenance than other cars.

That's because they're all mighty Toyotas and they keep lasting and working even though there's a shit ton of stuff to do on the car lol
User avatar
polm
Club Member
 
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:09 pm
Location: Somewhere in Quebec, yes I speak french!

1992 Toyota Celica

Re: How much effort and cost goes into making an st185 fast?

Postby underscore » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:29 pm

polm wrote:
underscore wrote:Even as a "money pit" though, I'd say they're a lot cheaper than modifying a newer car. I've got less into my GTFour than it would cost me to buy a new base model Yaris. I could maybe get an older (early-mid 2000's) STi for that but then it's rolling right into the age where lots of expensive bits start to go. Anything newer will cost even more, and anything older really isn't any different from an Alltrac as far as what it will take to get it back into good shape, though I've noticed Alltracs tend to be a bit more prone to neglected maintenance than other cars.

That's because they're all mighty Toyotas and they keep lasting and working even though there's a shit ton of stuff to do on the car lol


Truth, Toyota's take abuse like a mofo. My 87 GTS (3SGE) made it to 468xxx kms, and I bought it at 15 with 437xxx kms. So 2 years and 31xxx kms of teenager abuse (I feel bad for that car looking back) before that engine spun a bearing. Had I known more it would've been a quick fix and I'd likely be driving that beat over 500xxx km now.
★ 1991 GTFour RC ~ "Rebel Scum" ★
It's for sale! http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=52181
Build thread http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=44216
underscore
GTFour God
 
Posts: 3809
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:29 pm
Location: Kelowna, BC

PreviousNext

Return to Club Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests