What the hell is in this Alltrac? Engine ID help

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What the hell is in this Alltrac? Engine ID help

Postby Impreza555 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:06 am

Hey guys,
It ended up being an "Alltrac Weekend Buying Bonanza" and I ended up acquiring two steeds last week, one is an absolute gem and the other was leaving something to be desired. Since I am almost entirely new to the limited production Toyota scene I would like to extended the branch of civility and tact to the community... ie. HELP!

Here she is, the modified 1988 Alltrac, eeeesh she is not easy on the eyes... but she is a lot faster than my other time machine. I bought the car with the knowledge of an engine swap, previous buyers brother installed a "2nd gen MR2 engine", so here we are. I've been doing some research and am stuck on the intake manifold...

The exhaust manifold is aftermarket, the TIG welds give it away, unless someone bumps me in the right direction... but the good news is she looks like a dual-entry CT26 on there.

What you see is what I know, ie not a lot. Its bolted to the OEM ST165 drivetrain but the interior wiring is hacked something fierce. While I was correcting the HVAC and stereo harnesses I found the engine ECU pinouts to match either a ST185 or 1991 MR2.

All I have is time and eyes, any help would be vastly appreciated :)
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Re: What the hell is in this Alltrac? Engine ID help

Postby Impreza555 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:07 am

more pics...
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Re: What the hell is in this Alltrac? Engine ID help

Postby Impreza555 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:08 am

more pics...


*** Just in case you missed it, take a gander at those red wiper blade arms haha... "red is for racing" :)
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Re: What the hell is in this Alltrac? Engine ID help

Postby New Guy » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:26 am

Looks to me like a 3S-GTE with a 3S-GE side-feed manifold.
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Re: What the hell is in this Alltrac? Engine ID help

Postby Impreza555 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:34 am

New Guy wrote:Looks to me like a 3S-GTE with a 3S-GE side-feed manifold.


So using basic terminology, this looks to be a normal 3SGE (naturally aspirated) engine w/ an OEM Toyota turbo on it? Is there anything I should bee looking for to confirm compression ratios of NA vs forced induction?

Due to the oil filter being right by the manifold, unlike original ST165 Alltracs... can we confirm is this most likely a MR2?

-Richard
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Re: What the hell is in this Alltrac? Engine ID help

Postby syko says » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:15 am

using basic terms would be a 3SGTE engine with 3SGE side feed intake manifold. If it was an mr2 engine they moved a couple things around to stock location on the alltrac. For example the alternator from the back to front. But mecanically, everything is the same if it is an MR2 turbo engine. and as far as I know the oil filter locations are the same throughout the three engine generations.

EDIT: I stand corrected, sMARTINside is right. It's good to relearn information again, its been a little for me.
Last edited by syko says on Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What the hell is in this Alltrac? Engine ID help

Postby sMARTINside » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:53 am

The third gen 3S-GTE has the oil filter relocated under the engine in front of the oil pan. Image
This also applies to the fourth generation (ST215 engine):
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Re: What the hell is in this Alltrac? Engine ID help

Postby quieter » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:26 am

looks like a 2nd gen block to me because of the head, not from an mr2 because the crankshaft ventilation would have a 90 degrees bend. take that AFM out and check the part code that will be on it and google it. It will tell you wich engine this car originally belonged to. sucks that the ecu info got washed away
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Re: What the hell is in this Alltrac? Engine ID help

Postby MrDB » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:14 pm

Looks like an st185 engine with a 3sge side feed bolted on to give better flow and make the front mount easier to install.

Looks like a good swap anyway not just thrown in. It also has either a US or JAP 185 ecu.
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Re: What the hell is in this Alltrac? Engine ID help

Postby lumbercis » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:08 pm

@sMARTINside:

Just to be nitpicky, that second photo is actually an ST246 engine (5th gen 3sgte). Oil filter location is the same for 3-5th gens in any case.
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Re: What the hell is in this Alltrac? Engine ID help

Postby phattyduck » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:45 pm

That engine has an MR2 valve cover on it.

Looks like:
JDM 90-93 MR2 3s-gte engine with Celica ST185 3s-gte external components (valve cover is MR2, most other parts are Celica)
USDM 88-89 3s-ge intake manifold
Crappy eBay exhaust manifold.
If the downpipe doesn't have 6/7 bolts, it is a single-entry CT26 (from the ST165 3s-gte)

And yeah, that harness looks quite hacked up. What doesn't match about the harness to the ones you mention? There are two different ST185 pinouts...

-Charlie
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Re: What the hell is in this Alltrac? Engine ID help

Postby Impreza555 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:14 pm

Thank you everyone, that has put in there 2-cents thus far... I really appreciate it.

phattyduck wrote:That engine has an MR2 valve cover on it.

Looks like:
JDM 90-93 MR2 3s-gte engine with Celica ST185 3s-gte external components (valve cover is MR2, most other parts are Celica)
USDM 88-89 3s-ge intake manifold
Crappy eBay exhaust manifold.
If the downpipe doesn't have 6/7 bolts, it is a single-entry CT26 (from the ST165 3s-gte)

And yeah, that harness looks quite hacked up. What doesn't match about the harness to the ones you mention? There are two different ST185 pinouts...

-Charlie


Hey pal,
Thanks for the quick reference on the turbo, and until now I had no idea of the two pinouts for a ST185. Since I did not get much backstory all I'm relying on are pictures from 'hopefully' reliable sources, the Auz crowd has helped a lot.

I'm referencing the pinouts I found of the ST185 and SW20, which look to be very similar/same.
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Re: What the hell is in this Alltrac? Engine ID help

Postby phattyduck » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:25 pm

Since you have opened up the ECU, you can see the pins are named in there (even some of the ones that aren't used). Since there is a chance that you have an ST165 harness on the engine that was spliced into an ST185 ECU, things might get interesting. You might also want to search for a wiring diagram to start matching colors, etc.

Oh, and you are probably already working this direction... but make sure you get rid of all those crimp connections and do a good twist, solder and heat shrink job on them. :)

-Charlie
'89 Camry LE Alltrac 3S-GTE - SV25/ST205 hybrid
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Re: What the hell is in this Alltrac? Engine ID help

Postby Impreza555 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:33 pm

phattyduck wrote:Since you have opened up the ECU, you can see the pins are named in there (even some of the ones that aren't used). Since there is a chance that you have an ST165 harness on the engine that was spliced into an ST185 ECU, things might get interesting. You might also want to search for a wiring diagram to start matching colors, etc.

Oh, and you are probably already working this direction... but make sure you get rid of all those crimp connections and do a good twist, solder and heat shrink job on them. :)

-Charlie


Oh fantastic! Just have to find the ST165 harness at ECU pinout w/ colors... at least we are on our way. I figured it was a patch job, since I have about 8 wires that just go nowhere.

You would be correct, I am already going down that road of twist/solder/hs, its damn tedious but the result from the HVAC and radio are pleasing.

-Richard
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Re: What the hell is in this Alltrac? Engine ID help

Postby alltracman78 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:42 pm

phattyduck wrote:That engine has an MR2 valve cover on it.


No it doesn't, it has an ST185 valve cover. The SW20 valve cover PCV tube has a 90* angle on it. The ST185 one is straight.


You most likely have a JDM 93 ST185 engine/ECU.
Here's why.
-Your engine has a ST185 valve cover, and ST185 externals [alt bracket, ect, ect].
-The ECU has the second circuit board on top. Only came on 92/93 ECUs [for the improved diagnostics].
-The engine has a 9 bolt manifold [I know it's aftermarket]. Which means it has the alternator bracket for a 9 bolt manifold [the alternator bracket for the 7 bolt manifold won't work with a 9 bolt mani]. Only 92/93 [for the 185] had the 9 bolt manifold. But, MOST 92s came with a 7 bolt manifold. So most likely it's a 93.
-From the picture you have no EGR tube or block off plate [pic isn't that good, could be wrong], which makes it a JDM engine. And, only 81 92s were sold in the US; while a whole lot more were sold in Japan.
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