E25, good or bad?

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E25, good or bad?

Postby psipwrd » Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:12 am

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/01/26/ted- ... -gas-tank/

I'm not sure how many engines can't run ethanol. The worst I've heard is some fuel lines and pumps would corrode or fail sooner, but never heard or read anything like that happening specifically due to ethanol. I believe it can since there's ethanol-specific fuel pump upgrades.

What I'm looking at is the boost in tuning potential. E30 makes a huge difference over 91-93 pump gas so E25 should be similar. I was able to run 5 more pounds of boost in my WRX with 5 gallons of E85 mixed in with 91 with absolutely no issues over 3 years/40K miles.. With a 16.9 gallon tank, that's about 33-34%.

If all cars had to run it, I would imagine fuel systems would have a little more overhead to compensate for the lower volume of ethanol. We'd get bigger factory injectors, and possibly pumps. Also, if the engine were the issue, maybe we'd get better pistons and valves.

Thoughts?
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Re: E25, good or bad?

Postby Damu » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:32 am

I run non-ethanol fuel in all my older cars & bikes (00 & older) but consider this before going E85 or anything containing more than 10% ethanol...
1: what are your power goals?
2: How old is your car?
3: Is it a daily driver?
4: How far is your commute?
5: How many e25-e85 stations within your area

Besides being a good anti-knocking agent, i have a few issues with ethanol fuel besides just the poor gas mileage.
1: Fuel system wear in older vehicles and even some newer ones without appropriate mods. You need to overhaul the system to run this stuff safely. From all the rubber fuel lines, filters, pumps and injector seals and o-rings. Anything made prior to 2001 in the U.S. isn't going to be well equipped to handle more than e10.
2: The cost. Oh sure it costs less at the pump but the rate at which you consume it to make power is staggering enough to negate the savings. Also the cost of mods required to run it safely not to mention travel expenses to aquire the stuff or stock up on it is not worth it for me.
3: Inconsistency. So unless your car is equipped with a factory or well calibrated flex-fuel sensor/s, your flirting with disaster. I've seen enough inconsistency between batches at the same gas stations of the same brand while tuning e85 cars, to carry a test kit just for safety.
Seen too many well put together engines let loose due to inconstent ethanol-10+ fuels especially when tuned aggressively on the timing side. Fail safes can help but its often too late.
I could go on an on but im rather sleepy at this point seing im having too many spelling errors haha!
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Re: E25, good or bad?

Postby athousandleaves » Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:37 am

Damu covered most of the key points there^^
Personally, I'm not a fan of ethanol being added for knock resistance. In all my cars new and old I use 91 ethanol free gas when and where available and the returns in mpg and power delivery are very noticeable.

Ethanol is less energy dense so you get worse fuel economy and less power. It is able to help reduce knock by decreasing cylinder temps which if the car is tuned for it shouldn't cause too great of a power loss but you still have to burn more of it. When ethanol based fuels were being developed the market position was that it's going to deliver dramatically worse mpg but the cost per gallon was supposed to be much lower so you'd actually come out ahead of burning gasoline but every middle man in the gasoline universe has taken their cut of this discount so the consumer now has no reason to choose ethanol based fuels over petroleum based fuels, the economic value just isn't there.

IIRC the EU has decided to walk away from corrosive ethanol blended fuels all together...

Think of the whole ethanol thing this way; what would you do to your bartender if he kept watering down your drinks but said you'd get the same buzz?
Among other things, you'd probably find another bar to drink at.

Do yourself a favour, avoid all fuels blended with ethanol.
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Re: E25, good or bad?

Postby Damu » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:33 pm

I like your analogy athousandleaves haha!!
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Re: E25, good or bad?

Postby CTechBlueDragon » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:47 pm

Well use your own experience rather than all the cry baby nay-sayers. Ethanol is the present and future. They keep taxing the stuff into the same range as gas because they know gas is junk fuel. They used to dump it into rivers and burn it off for a reason. Plus who can argue with that sweet smell coming out your exhaust pipe!

Ethanol vote here.
If your super scary get a good flex sensor and whatever ECU to work well with mixing, that takes all the variance in ethanol from season to season out of the equation by testing how much is in it.

Fill up with gas if you want mileage and/or have a vagina.
Fill up with ethanol if you want power and sweet clouds.

BTW any of you nay-sayers post up on your first hand experience with ethanol because I bet its gonna be nothing but crickets in here when it comes to that.
I saw a facebox post where a guy blamed blowing up his engine on ethanol. Boom decision made for me..... PFFFFFFT
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Re: E25, good or bad?

Postby Damu » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:36 pm

There's "nay-sayers" and there's critics. As a mechanic and tuner, i give both sides to the story. Not everyone has access to proper information regarding this stuff.
Gas companies advertise it like a magic wand for your engine! Sounds like sweet clouds until your itching from your vagina when shit hits the fan.
It may be the future but most people cars are not as futuristic on this forum, otherwise they would be posing with all the other dragons in the green fields PUFFFF ing their artificial smoke on the internal combustion engine.
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Re: E25, good or bad?

Postby CTechBlueDragon » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:08 pm

Well let's hear it then. What are your experiences with it. Give us both sides not just a bunch of hot air you just blew out your ass.
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Re: E25, good or bad?

Postby Damu » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:28 pm

This is not a pissing match CTechBlueDragon! Aint nobody got time fo-dat! The o.p. asked for opinions not nut-checks!
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