My new clutch (Some questions too)

I finally replaced the clutch in my car. After running a few long hard AutoSlaloms (3 kilometer courses on airstrips) in addition to the abuse of learning how to deal with AWD and 118000km the stock clutch and pressure plate were done. I drove it for a while after it started slipping but it was finally too much. Initially it would just slip in high gears when you pressed the gas, eventually I would lose speed on hills unless I down shifted. I took a look after it was out and the clutch was down to rivits, a gouge worn in the pressure plate, and they had to machine a fair amount off the flywheel. I unfortunately didn't do the work myself But I needed the car done quickly (Shop did it in 12 hours dropping the engine about 8-10 inches and they did VERY good work. Need something done in Halifax, NS and I would recommend them)

I ended up with a Bully Stage 3 clutch. http://www.bullyclutch.com/stage3.html I like the fact that it has the high grip surfaces while still keeping the sprung hub. So far its not too bad, but I'm still within their recommended 1000km break in period. The car is trickier to take off slowly and I stalled it the first time I tried to drive it at all (A few times since too) but it is hardly undrivable, already I can drive it smoothly back and forth to work with only the occasional letting out too quick. So much better then the slippy stock clutch. Apparently the shop puts these on lots of local subarus and VW TDIs, so lots of cars with awd and high torque. The pressure plate is pretty heavy but easy to daily drive. The only day I've had trouble was after a workout of running up and down a steep hill over and over for an hour, my legs were shaking just standing or walking and it was VERY hard to keep the clutch in and I would put it in neutral and use the ebrake at intersections... But it could still be driven. Now to finish breaking it in and take it to the track!! :evil:

I do have a few small issues though. I do have trouble getting into first sometimes. It seems like the clutch isn't completely disengaging. If the car is idling in neutral it sounds like the clutch it touching and chattering a little as well. The clutch only disengages if you push the pedal completely to the floor and has a very small range of being engaged or not. Any suggestions to solve any of these issues? The one I am most concerned about it if the clutch is still partly engaged when I press the pedal down. Would adjusting the pedal up or adding a longer slave cylinder rod help either of those?

Speedsource piston extender for your slave clutch cylinder and a Speedsource braided line will help with better pedal feel.

Plenty of reviews on the site and SS are great guys...

I'm not so worried about the feel as the fact that it may not be disengaging all of the way. Would the extender give me more range of motion or would it just change where the same range of motion is on the pedal?

The piston will help. It's cheap and can't hurt, takes like less than 10min to install... The braided line is a nice feature but yeah a PITA to install with everything being very cramped but I noticed more difference with the braided line with better pedal feel.

aaaaand something took a big dump tonight!

I was driving along and all of a sudden there was some slipping feeling, some chatter and then I stopped moving. Now the pedal goes to the floor, and I can't shift. It mostly works if you manage to start the car in gear (Did that and drove it home in second) and now its still dark out (6am) so I can't tell whats up. There is still fluid in the resevoir but the pedal goes to the floor like a blown brake would. Any suggestions that hopefully don't involve pulling the whole thing to see whats wrong? Is it likely the clutch slave cylinder? I'll have to check it for movement in the morning. Thinking about it a friends truck did something similar and thats what we replaced on it...

Everything was going so well! I guess its a GT4 so it can never be easy to fix.

I just checked the slave cylinder this morning. It looks like its moving. I'm not sure its enough movement or not though. Looks like its moving less then an inch.

I saw a number of other posts on here about similar things happening to people who put in heavier pressure plates. Should I just replace the slave cylinder before calling the shop to get them to do anything? They warrenty their work but if its something they didn't touch I may as well do that rather then pay them to do it.

Uhm... That's probably not either cylinders but I would check your master clutch cylilnder if there is ample fluid there.

That just sounds like a blown clutch system if you've got THAT much air in the system.

When I checked this morning there looked to be plenty of fluid in the system but it was really dirty.

I called the shop that did it, I'm going to replace the cylinder but if that isn't it I guess I'll have to take it back there and they can deal with it under warrenty.

Dirty fluid is bad. You should have the shop replace the old fluid, rebleed the system and go from there. Dirty fluids in the tranny and brake lines are sure signs of old age or contaminated lines...

I think you're right. The dark fluid can only be bad news.

I went to bleed the clutch line and take a better look at it tonight. There was plenty of pressure when I opened the bleeder and it didn't sputter but the pedal stuck to the floor, I remembered from some reading here that thats a sign of the master cylinder.

I'll get one of those ordered up tomorrow and I've got the slave cylinder coming anyway so I'll do both and fresh fluid. Its such a tight engine bay! I'd rather not have to pull the strut brace to get the master cylinder out but what can you do, surely it can't be too bad. I've done it in other cars so it shouldn't be an issue. I'm headed out for wings in a few minutes so I'm going to check if its leaking inside the car. Did I mention I don't like the daylight savings time! It was 6:30pm when I came inside and it was completely dark out.

Thanks for the help by the way. Its always great when people reply. This site is a great wealth of information from people who have seen and done almost anything that anyone with these cars could run into.

The least of your worries is the strut brace...
Keep us posted...

Sounds like seals on the master cyl ie bad master cyl. Slave cyl moving less than an inch is not going to get it done.

Reached up under the dash this morning. I'm pretty sure it was the right spot but I didn't crawl up under to be sure. It seems like there was some fluid back there, there wasn't a puddle forming but I assume it doesn't take much of a hole for it not to work. Time to get a master cylinder ordered up. When I checked for leaks initially I never even thought to look inside the car.

I've almost got everything back together to test.

I compared the master cylinder that I painstakingly removed from the car to the one that I was happy to find in stock today. Apparently they're different! The studs are further apart on the new one then on the old one. What a hateful part to get at too. It isn't complicated just awkward.

Has anyone compared the master cylinder on a RC to an alltrac? They seem to only list one for the ST185 celica in the EPC (But I could be searching wrong) just trying to figure out if I asked for the wrong part or they gave me something other then what I asked for. I'm going to try bleeding it with the new slave cylinder and the old master anyway and see what happens. It may have been a false alarm about the MC leaking.

Clutch Slave Cylinder
LHD Celica Alltrac = 31410-20470
RHD Celica GT4 = 31410-20510

Other cars that use 20510 = nothing I could find! So ASSUMING that its the master cylinder I have to wait for Toyota Canada to get a RHD part from Japan, otherwise its in the tranny and I don't know what to do.

The fluid isn't spurting like bleeding brakes usually does so I don't think there is still air in it and the slave cylinder is moving when I press the pedal. But the clutch isn't disengaging. I can't start the car in gear with the clutch in without it moving the car. If the brand new slave cylinder is moving is it still worth replacing the master cylinder? It'll be at least next week before I can get the part, rebuilding the master cylinder doesn't seem like a good option unless someone thinks otherwise.

Sometimes you can have a bad master with the slave working, but most times, the clutch will never disengage since the master would not be able to maintain the pressure required to do this.

As long as you have no leaks, the extended push-rod will do the trick.

i bought a clutch rebuild kit off of first toyota parts. it lasted....
2 weeks?
i am 99% positive i did it right, but i'm not sure how else an oem part like that fails so quickly.
at any rate, i'll just vote for getting a new master cyl.
when your clutch pedal is stuck to the ground, the mc is the first place to look, everytime.

Took it to the shop...

The rivits that hold the hub to the main disc all sheared off!! I know I did not abuse it, I've installed a clutch in an easier car and abused that and had no problems, I babied this one for all 5 days and 400km. It is on its way back to the manufacturer to see if they will warrenty it. I will not be impressed if they don't. They claim a 90 day warrenty. We'll see how that goes. Apparently the rivit holes were oblong as if they loosened up and there was play in them. I'm worried too much was taken off the flywheel. Any chance of that causing a problem like this.

Also the shop claims to offer a 30 day warrenty on labour, but they arn't sounding too encouraging about replacing the clutch under warrenty. They are saying it was installed correctly therefore the labour shouldn't be covered. To me it seems they installed it, the part broke and needs to be replaced within 30 days so it is up to them. Any thoughts?