Rav4 close ratio gearbox info

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Re: Rav4 close ratio gearbox info

Postby AwdGte » Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:16 pm

(sorry for the old thread bump)

So you took the E56
Final Drive: 4.235 (72/17)
1st (3.538); 2nd (2.045); 3rd (1.333); 4th (1.028) 5th (0.820)


And you swapped in the ring and pinion gear from the E250f?
Final Drive: 4.933 (74/15)
1st (3.833); 2nd (1.913); 3rd (1.258); 4th (0.918) 5th (0.775)



Looking at Wikipedia, the e50f, the E53, the E55f, the E56 and the E57f5 all share a common gearing and probably a common main shaft, so those rings and pinions may be interchangeable as well?

Can you elaborate on what was involved in swapping the E250f ring and pinion into the E56 gearbox?



E50F

5 Speed Transverse Front Engine Full Time All Wheel Drive with Viscous Coupling Limited Slip Center Differential

Gear ratios for this transmission.
1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Reverse Final
3.538 2.05 1.33 0.97 0.73 4.29

Applications:

Toyota Celica GT-Four (All-Trac) - ST165 & ST185


E53

"Used with the 3vz-fe engine for 1992 and the Gen3 Camry."

Gear ratios for this transmission.

1st


2nd


3rd


4th


5th


Reverse


Final
3.583 2.045 1.333 1.028 0.820 3.545 3.625

E55F5

Front-engine, all-wheel drive with selectable part-time function.

Gear ratios for this transmission.
1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Reverse Final
3.538 2.045 1.333 0.972 0.820 3.583 3.722

Applications:

Toyota Corolla Sedan (DLX) (All-Trac) - (Toyota Corolla (E90) - AE95 Sedan

(Sprinter Carib - Japan)
E56

Front-engine 2wd 5mt.

Gear ratios for this transmission.
1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Reverse Final
3.538 2.045 1.333 1.028 0.820 3.583 4.235

Toyota Celica ST202 (3S-GE)
E57F5

Front Mount Transverse Engine,(4AFE) Full-Time 4wd 50/50-power split front/rear, with selectable 'Centre-Differential-Lock' function and open rear differential.

Gear ratios for this transmission.
1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Reverse Final
3.833 2.045 1.333 0.918 0.775 3.583 3.722

Applications:

Toyota Corolla Wagon (All-Trac) - (Toyota Corolla (E90) - AE95 Wagon)




Gniady wrote:\It works fine -last 2 year. - Need foto - write rgniadek2o2.pl
I put final drive 4,933 - 74/15 - to gearbox from celica E56 Viscus LSD.
Gear in E56
1 - 3,538
2 - 2,045
3 - 1,333
4 - 1,028
5 - 0,820
+ final 4,933 -
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Re: Rav4 close ratio gearbox info

Postby gunt » Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:42 pm

Hi all
just came across this topic now , this might seam a stupid question and as i have no availability here to check as 0 were ever sold or imported here . but is there an all trac gt4 or rav4 ever sold near any of yee in auto as with most other makes if we want cheep FD's we just grab autos or auto diff and fit the lsd to the ratio ! job done did anyone ever research this
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Re: Rav4 close ratio gearbox info

Postby aus jd 2703 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:19 pm

very interesting will watch to see if the auto FD fits.
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Re: Rav4 close ratio gearbox info

Postby eric thompson » Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:59 pm

Maybe I'm overthinking or stupid and I'm willing to bet its been asked and answered before.... but wont changing the final drive in the trans require the rear diff ring and pinion to be changed accordingly? If not, why? and what about burning up the center V/C.

I ask because in my quest to build a competitve & reliable track car and not having the funds for a 6spd sequential. I know the OEM ratio's are going to hurt me. Since i have to run a 35mm restrictor, dispite dyno tuning still a month away+/-, Im sure my motor will be running out of useable power around 6500 rpm. With our gearing and or final drives they're just too tall to be useable... And a KAAZ close ratio set is no good either because i need to be able to go faster than 120mph.

fyi- i have 3 ST165 boxes and 1 RC box (RC motor in the car)

Using a gear ratio calculator, RC ratios, 4.285 fd, 245/40/17 tires @ 6500 rpm redline = topseed 152mph
@7000 rpm = 165mph
From a reliabilty standpoint I'd prefer to use the RC box but the ST165 final drive. Assuming the provided specs are correct, since I have heard of conflicting info regarding final drives and their country of origin....

Any help would be great in helping me avoid sabotaging my driveline and blowing up on track!

-Eric
ST165-PARTS-RED
ST165-SCCA STU ROADRACING-(RALLISPEC'S ST165)
NEED ONE MORE FOR STREET:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-RCuV_Hmqk (ITS miata 6spd,4.78 rear, shitloads of fun!! multiple wins and track records in 2014)
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Re: Rav4 close ratio gearbox info

Postby CMS-GT4 » Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:40 am

The final drive is before the power split so you are not affecting the front and rear diffs differently if that makes sense.
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Re: Rav4 close ratio gearbox info

Postby kevzep » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:27 am

eric thompson wrote: And a KAAZ close ratio set is no good either because i need to be able to go faster than 120mph.


5th gear on the KAAZ gear set which I have in my Rally Car on a 4.285 final ratio this gives me a top speed of 220kph which is 136mph. This is at 7600rpm though, my engine is fairly well worked, it produces its max power at this RPM.

However, you can get a higher final drive gear set which is from Camry (Solara) XV20 Series '96~'01, I have the part numbers if you are interested. Its 3.933. You can still get them new.
I actually have one of these gear sets in my spare parts, I was going to use it, but as I am on the gravel roads exclusively with my rallying, I only need about 120mph at the most so I am trying the 4.285 final drive this season and seeing how it goes.
The 3.933 final drive at 7600rpm would give me a top speed in 5th gear of 148.3mph with the KAAZ gear set.

The thing about the KAAZ set is that the gears are ideally spaced for motorsport applications, the RPM drop between gears is really good, you always have useable power and acceleration is insane, there's never a time you are out of the power band and therefore never losing time, you are always in the right gear.
The Rav 4 box has short ratios, but the gears are not "close", you will still have problems with falling off the power when changing up and coming out of turns etc.
1st gear is next to useless, whereas with the KAAZ kit, 1st gear is high enough that you actually end up being able to use it.

What do you think your ideal top speed would be?

You can mix and match the ratios from the KAAZ set and the OEM gears, you might be able to make a good hybrid gearbox. EDIT; Just been having a look at this in the gear calculator I have, its not working that well so far!!

The other thing to check is if the Rav 4 box has double syncros, if you are using the car for motorsport, the double syncros are really useful to have.
I would consider a E154F, strong box, and the gear ratios are better than the RC gearbox.
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Re: Rav4 close ratio gearbox info

Postby eric thompson » Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:16 pm

Thanks for the responses and clarifying some of my mental blocks CMS & kevzep....

I would assume that since I have 3 spare st165 boxes I could swap the 3.933 fd from them into the RC trans with a KAAZ gearset?...
Even though as a spare, the st165 boxes will fit/bolt up/operate just fine with the RC engine, there are no short gears available and the single synchros are weak. Ultimately (based on the responses I get) I will probably just swap over the 4.285 fd from a spare 165 box and use the Oem RC ratios as is. That seems to be the best trade off without springing for the KAAZ set.....

kevzep - I'm curious to know your engine build specs, especially being on a restrictor plate and making power @7600rpm...
ST165-PARTS-RED
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NEED ONE MORE FOR STREET:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-RCuV_Hmqk (ITS miata 6spd,4.78 rear, shitloads of fun!! multiple wins and track records in 2014)
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Re: Rav4 close ratio gearbox info

Postby kevzep » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:08 pm

eric thompson wrote:Thanks for the responses and clarifying some of my mental blocks CMS & kevzep....

I would assume that since I have 3 spare st165 boxes I could swap the 3.933 fd from them into the RC trans with a KAAZ gearset?...
Even though as a spare, the st165 boxes will fit/bolt up/operate just fine with the RC engine, there are no short gears available and the single synchros are weak. Ultimately (based on the responses I get) I will probably just swap over the 4.285 fd from a spare 165 box and use the Oem RC ratios as is. That seems to be the best trade off without springing for the KAAZ set.....

kevzep - I'm curious to know your engine build specs, especially being on a restrictor plate and making power @7600rpm...



You can fit the KAAZ to the RC box to get the dual syncros which is what I would do, but I am not so sure the ST165 boxes have a 3.933 final drive, you might need to count the teeth and work it out. The ST185 RC box actually has a 3.933 FD so all you need is the KAAZ set.
Just need to make sure its actually a RC box, there's just no real way of telling if its a E150F or E151F by looking at them, you'd need to start counting teeth. E150F is the standard GT4 box, the E151F is the RC box. The 1st and 2nd ratios are different, and of course the 151F also has the 2nd and 3rd dual syncros.

The E50 F1 and E50 F2 were the two transmissions in the ST165 and all my info says 4.29 FD.
One has the hydralock center diff and one has the viscous, us rally guys are always on the hunt for the hydralock center,you can connect the pneumatic actuator to the handbrake so when you pull the handbrake on it unlocks the centre, and you can do your handbrake turns on the hairpin bends.
As yet I have not been able to find one, if you have one I would be keen to buy it off you and ship it to New Zealand!!

The 3.933 you buy new from Toyota is not that expensive, and then at least you have nice new parts which is always good when you are using these things for motorsport purposes.
Its about 600 US for the final drive shaft and crown wheel gear. But of you have a RC gearbox, then you wont need to buy one anyway.

Oh, my engine is not running a restrictor. My engine is GEN3, forged, runs a hybrid turbo with steel shaft and different compressor at 25psi, lightened flywheel with a Tilton 7 1/4 inch twin plate rally clutch, 272 cams, 11mm lift and 85lb valve springs, Link ECU with anti-lag and boost control, have a Mishimoto radiator (one of the new ones) Front mounted EVO intercooler.....
I shift at 7300, with the close ratios there's no need the rev the crap out of it.

What are you using the car for? Track days? Do you know what you top speed needs to be?

All I know is after getting the KAAZ gear set in the gearbox, I am a lot faster than before, over 1 sec per KM on a 10km gravel stage. The car is easier to drive, always in the power, never falling off boost....as a result, the car runs a bit hotter than before though!!
ST185 Narrow body Rally Car
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Stocked with lots of go fast goodies....
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Re: Rav4 close ratio gearbox info

Postby eric thompson » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:11 pm

My, I meant swap the 4.285 from the 165 box since the RC already has the 3.933
ST165-PARTS-RED
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NEED ONE MORE FOR STREET:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-RCuV_Hmqk (ITS miata 6spd,4.78 rear, shitloads of fun!! multiple wins and track records in 2014)
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Re: Rav4 close ratio gearbox info

Postby eric thompson » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:16 pm

SCCA road racing, STU class, weight vs restrictor so I'm at 35mm. Top speed varies by track but the nationals are at Daytona so I'll need to be 150mph on the high banked oval parts....
ST165-PARTS-RED
ST165-SCCA STU ROADRACING-(RALLISPEC'S ST165)
NEED ONE MORE FOR STREET:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-RCuV_Hmqk (ITS miata 6spd,4.78 rear, shitloads of fun!! multiple wins and track records in 2014)
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Re: Rav4 close ratio gearbox info

Postby kevzep » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:07 pm

eric thompson wrote:SCCA road racing, STU class, weight vs restrictor so I'm at 35mm. Top speed varies by track but the nationals are at Daytona so I'll need to be 150mph on the high banked oval parts....


To achieve those top speeds, there's more at play than the gearbox. If you are having to use such a ridiculously small restrictor, you simply wont have the RPM and the top end power.
You'll need to work on the lower torque these engines have, and higher gearing.
Its all about useable engine power + gearing, not just gearing.

I would not use the Rav gearbox for that sort of top speed, you'll just end up having to put a higher final drive in it and then you're back to square one with crap ratios and a 1st gear you'll never use.

If you need that sort of top speed you need a 3.9 final drive, so why don't you just use the RC box? If you want more durability then I would suggest the ST205 box (E154) with its uprated syncros, the E154 also has a higher 1st and 2nd gear than the RC box which will be quite useful.

Thats my 2cents. I think the restirctor rule you have to work to is ridiculous, especially with those sort of tops speeds....
we have equally stupid rules here in New Zealand as well...


So in summary, I would get an ST205 box and put the 3.9 final drive in it.
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Re: Rav4 close ratio gearbox info

Postby eric thompson » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:17 pm

i've tried many ways to appeal to the Comp Rule Board about the retrictor even offered and balance between tire width and restrictor size.... but in the end all participants must abide by the same rules. Daytona is the extreme end of top speed as far as tracks go. Most tracks especially here in the North East dont have long straights like that.... It's going to be R&D next year for the right package. Some guys come to the track with 3 diff rear diffs, sets of tires with different aspect ratios, and change gearboxes overnight for an advantage. I cant get that crazy, its too expensive and time consuming. The Celica trans is such a motherf***** to change i dont have that option and those guys are in RWD cars with sequentals anyway... Time will tell
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NEED ONE MORE FOR STREET:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-RCuV_Hmqk (ITS miata 6spd,4.78 rear, shitloads of fun!! multiple wins and track records in 2014)
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Re: Rav4 close ratio gearbox info

Postby kevzep » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:25 pm

eric thompson wrote:i've tried many ways to appeal to the Comp Rule Board about the retrictor even offered and balance between tire width and restrictor size.... but in the end all participants must abide by the same rules. Daytona is the extreme end of top speed as far as tracks go. Most tracks especially here in the North East dont have long straights like that.... It's going to be R&D next year for the right package. Some guys come to the track with 3 diff rear diffs, sets of tires with different aspect ratios, and change gearboxes overnight for an advantage. I cant get that crazy, its too expensive and time consuming. The Celica trans is such a motherf***** to change i dont have that option and those guys are in RWD cars with sequentals anyway... Time will tell


Yes well thats what it comes down to, final drive ratios and having the ability to swap them out easily, which then becomes a budget issue and a logistical issue since you're not just going to slip the gearbox out of the car at the track to pop a higher or lower final drive in it.

If I was in this situation, I would use the ST205 box with its standard 4.285 final drive and go from there. Its strong, better 1st and 2nd ratio, and to be honest, 3rd 4th and 5th in these boxes isnt that bad. Much better than a Rav4 box.

If you find after the 1st season you're after some higher gearing, then put the 3.933 final in it. But it will depend on how responsive the engine is and how quickly you run out of RPM using a restrictor that small....
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400+bhp depending on boost.
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Re: Rav4 close ratio gearbox info

Postby eric thompson » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:29 pm

I'm going to wait and see the power curve on the dyno. Then I should have a good idea where to go from there...
ST165-PARTS-RED
ST165-SCCA STU ROADRACING-(RALLISPEC'S ST165)
NEED ONE MORE FOR STREET:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-RCuV_Hmqk (ITS miata 6spd,4.78 rear, shitloads of fun!! multiple wins and track records in 2014)
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Re: Rav4 close ratio gearbox info

Postby aus jd 2703 » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:34 pm

kevzep wrote: Yes well thats what it comes down to, final drive ratios and having the ability to swap them out easily, which then becomes a budget issue and a logistical issue since you're not just going to slip the gearbox out of the car at the track to pop a higher or lower final drive in it.

If I was in this situation, I would use the ST205 box with its standard 4.285 final drive and go from there. Its strong, better 1st and 2nd ratio, and to be honest, 3rd 4th and 5th in these boxes isnt that bad. Much better than a Rav4 box.

If you find after the 1st season you're after some higher gearing, then put the 3.933 final in it. But it will depend on how responsive the engine is and how quickly you run out of RPM using a restrictor that small....


is there any option for a FD higher than 4.285? would like something around 4.6ish
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