uprated viscous cupplings

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Re: uprated viscous cupplings

Postby gtfour77 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:52 pm

st185-sainz wrote:what rear lsd are you using?! the stock torsen one?! the plate type aftermarket one can be rebuilt easily and you can also change the characteristics of it to fit your driving style!
at the moment I'm out of stock with the plate type ones but I will get some later this year...

the front diff is the last one should care about! I did the centre and the rear diff and the driveability improved a lot! at first I did the rear unit, that prevented from massive understeer. then I did the viscous unit and it gave much more traction and you really feel the car wants to move forward!
just a thought...



I am on a Cusco 1 way (clutch type) right now, I have been tuning it with friction modifier but lately there is simply no LSD action seems like. It's going to be coming apart as well over winter with all new plates. Hopefully I can get the center one figured out. I have two of them so I'll do some testing on it to see where they are and maybe modify them... (lathe and torque wrench test) Do you know what type of viscous fluid they used? $580 euro is kind of high for us still but well worth it is there is nothing else available.
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Re: uprated viscous cupplings

Postby st185-sainz » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:14 pm

honestly I don't know what fluid they used! but the problem was to open the unit! ours is welded and needs to be machined to get it open and put a plug in it for refilling! that's the challenge...

testing with a torque wrench won't give you proper results as the visco needs a certain difference in the rpms from one end to the other...
they can test it on their rig with 50rpm difference and measure the torque value then! the standard unit has around 150Nm at 50rpm.
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Re: uprated viscous cupplings

Postby gtfour77 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:32 pm

st185-sainz wrote:honestly I don't know what fluid they used! but the problem was to open the unit! ours is welded and needs to be machined to get it open and put a plug in it for refilling! that's the challenge...

testing with a torque wrench won't give you proper results as the visco needs a certain difference in the rpms from one end to the other...
they can test it on their rig with 50rpm difference and measure the torque value then! the standard unit has around 150Nm at 50rpm.



That's a good start to know the specs on the stock unit... I know Subaru people test theirs on a lathe at 100RPM...will need to look into it a bit more. Thanks for the info!
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Re: uprated viscous cupplings

Postby gtfour77 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:53 pm

Well i got the stock VC out of the spare tranfer case. It's in the lather right now and it is pretty tight. I'll measure the torque on it if I can, Didn't want to weld onto the shaft as I might need it later. I was able to turn the diff with a pipe wrench...if i had to guess it would be around 60 ft/lbs of torque to turn it. My lather will not turn the unit to measure it, that's simply too much force on the old machine. The unit also has a set screw that can be removed. Once I did there was a thick goo that started coming out so I plugged it back up....that means it's not dried out at least. I am not sure where to even begin to find fluid like that.... It was thicker than honey seemed like, quite similar though. It would be pretty easy to open and weld back together IMHO....I'll post some pictures tomorrow... This is just a start for now.

Mario, I might end up sending you or the company you mentioned my unit if this doesn't work out...how much would it cost in US currency? Thanks!

PS: I just got Quaife diff (MR2 turbo) specs and drawings emailed to me, I'll be measuring tonight...
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Re: uprated viscous cupplings

Postby gtfour77 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:00 pm

Found a couple of vids... anyone speaks german? Mario? Anyway you can see if you can find out what silicone fluid they use? I understood "silicone"...heh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBCLkgUT ... re=related

Also, here is a suby test, this might be a good start to see if the VC is any good...the one I have out on the lathe right now seems to be good as it takes quite a bit of force to turn it...will try to measure the torque tonight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUatvj93 ... re=related
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Re: uprated viscous cupplings

Postby aus jd 2703 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:42 pm

ok im probably way off but rc cars use silicone oil in their shock absorbers. cause silicone has a high viscocity index so it change viscosity very little for a given temp increase.
they have up to 500 000wt which i believe is some thing like 500 000cst which is very very think.
is that possible to use? the shits not cheap probably $10 fo 60ml
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wt ... LXWBN6&P=7
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Re: uprated viscous cupplings

Postby MWP » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:41 pm

aus jd 2703 wrote:ok im probably way off but rc cars use silicone oil in their shock absorbers. cause silicone has a high viscocity index so it change viscosity very little for a given temp increase.


:twisted: Thats the exact reverse of what you want viscous LSD fluid to do.
You want it to thicken up a lot when its heated.
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Re: uprated viscous cupplings

Postby sleeper » Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:01 pm

I think i have a idea... Rav 4 is using about the same gearbox as the gt4, and at least the first generation of them have manual ( elctronic) locking on the senter diff.. ( 100% lock)
Might be a way to use a rav 4 center on a st185\205 gearbox and have a way to lock the center?
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Re: uprated viscous cupplings

Postby MWP » Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:55 am

That is an interesting idea...
I wonder if itll be strong enough though.
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Re: uprated viscous cupplings

Postby sleeper » Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:10 pm

MWP wrote:That is an interesting idea...
I wonder if itll be strong enough though.



yupp, since the car was made with a 3sfe engine and 4wd ( and elctronic locking) it should fit..
but there is a question if it will hold any power.. ( but my guess is that it will..)
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Re: uprated viscous cupplings

Postby st185-sainz » Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:51 pm

as some of you would like to do a visco unit on exchange, I can offer you to get one done and ship it to you - and you can send it back to me when you fitted the new one! I have 3-5 units in stock and can get them done on order...

how does this sound?! any interests?! I will also post in for sale section!
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Re: uprated viscous cupplings

Postby darthripley » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:37 pm

Mario - how many km's does your ST185 have on it?
Just curious to see how worn the coupling was for you.
Would this fit in an ST205 tranny? That's what I have on our ST185.
It is a low km tranny so I am wondering just how worn the coupling/fluid really is :shrug:

I have a TRD 2 way clutch plate type LSD in the rear which improved handling massively.
Just want to see if it is really worth the work + $$$$ to have this done.
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Re: uprated viscous cupplings

Postby st185-sainz » Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:41 pm

I also have had the 2way lsd in the rear diff at first, but the problem was (what I really noticed after changing the visco) that the car got more sideways but could have more traction to move forward (don't know how to describe it properly...).
I did more than twice the value the stock visco had to improve driveability. I did not change it because it was worn - it is a real improvement! (not only servicing the unit!)

we can set it to a value that you can still use the handbrake or not, as you prefer!
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Re: uprated viscous cupplings

Postby st185-sainz » Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:13 am

the unit alone is 4kg, so with packaging it will be around 4,5kg (10 pounds?!)

the question was about the postage: I can offer sending the unit for 20EUR to the states (half of the normal price) - this can be done to everybody individually, also If you arrange a group buy!
I'm not very familar with the parcel system in the US, you maybe will find the ceapest way of shipping by searching on your own?!

so the extra shipping costs should not be too much!

If you need more information, do not hesitate to contact me!
Mario,
ST205 blue: completely stock
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Re: uprated viscous cupplings

Postby MWP » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:58 am

So has anyone ever tested their center diff's viscous LSD?

I just did the following:
Car on stands with all wheels off the ground.
Ran up the engine & wheels in 1st gear at ~2000RPM.
Slowly pulled on the hand brake.

Now, if the center LSD is working, the LSD should slip a little, then heat up, and grab which will then try to slow/stall the engine, correct?

I had no problem stopping the rear wheels from turning using the handbrake while the front wheels kept turning
So i gather my center LSD is screwed?
If it makes any difference, its a 205 gbox.
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