Figured it out :)

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Figured it out :)

Postby LegacyofDan » Mon May 30, 2011 1:59 am

What sort of advise can one give me when swapping out the Open Diff to the Torsen Diff? (in a 165 if you couldn't guess; not that it really matters in this application)

Any Do's and Dont's?

Tips? Tricks?

Common mistakes?

Anything would be great....and most appreciated!
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Last edited by LegacyofDan on Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Rear Stock Open Diff to Rear Torsen Diff Advice...Plz Advise

Postby CMS-GT4 » Mon May 30, 2011 2:31 am

Check one of the bgbs you can download. I think they have a bit of the technical data you need when setting backlash etc...
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Re: Rear Stock Open Diff to Rear Torsen Diff Advice...Plz Advise

Postby LegacyofDan » Mon May 30, 2011 3:03 pm

that is the thing i actually own the BGB's....and they have alot of data...but somehow i have done it wrong...and i am assuming that i probably will need to buy smaller thrust washers for it (i do not remember what the BGB called it, i have not touched it since early yesterday...a bit annoyed)....but hoping that maybe i could of done something wrong, i fallowed what the BGB said, i labeled everything...

the problem is a small degree of binding(for lack of a better term) when i spin it by hand, every 1 to 1.5 rotations of the ring gear it hits a spot where it is hard to spin and then gets back to normal again until another 1(sometimes 1.5 rotations) of the ring gear. The run out shows to be just fine.
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Re: Rear Stock Open Diff to Rear Torsen Diff Advice...Plz Advise

Postby LegacyofDan » Mon May 30, 2011 6:35 pm

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Re: Rear Stock Open Diff to Torsen Advice...w/ Video Explanation

Postby DudeMan » Mon May 30, 2011 10:55 pm

I can't offer much advice as I haven't really worked on differentials or transmissions but this site might be of some help.

http://www.gearinstalls.com/

There's nothing specific to the All Trac but there's some info on swapping a Supra LSD into an open carrier.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.. I'm hoping to put an Aussie locker in my truck some day so I'll have to learn gearing eventually too.
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Re: Rear Stock Open Diff to Torsen Advice...w/ Video Explanation

Postby LegacyofDan » Mon May 30, 2011 11:05 pm

yeah this is relatively new to me as well...thank you man for the link!! browsing through it now :)

upon reading..http://www.gearinstalls.com/gearinstalltools.htm

good god i sure hope i do not need a self like this:
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...i mean that is the only thing that i can conclude on that is wrong...but my run out is within spec hence my confusion; even during the hard to spin part

and upon reading: http://www.gearinstalls.com/supralsd.htm

i used the races that they provided me with the torsen diff...maybe i should try the ones that where in there before?
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Re: Rear Stock Open Diff to Torsen Advice...w/ Video Explanation

Postby 88gt4DE » Mon May 30, 2011 11:49 pm

Im not going to ask the stupid questions cause i know you :P Assuming this is a new unit and you said the backlash was in spec. whats the thickness difference between the shims they gave you and the stock ones ?
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Re: Rear Stock Open Diff to Torsen Advice...w/ Video Explanation

Postby LegacyofDan » Tue May 31, 2011 1:31 am

^
feel free to ask stupid questions...cause if you recall i put my calipers on "upside down"(wrong sides). I just hope i did something stupid that i am not thinking of.

well i said the run out was in spec, the backlash was actually slightly tighter than spec, spec says .0051-.0071 inches. mine was between .0045 to .0050 ish...basically looks slightly less than .005 but so very slightly ...the gauge is really old. but either way it is slightly less than spec. hence why i am ruling out...unless it really could be the issue? but by such a small amount?

the plate washer/thrust washer are the ones that were in the diff originally, since they did not provide me any. They only provided me with different outer races. Of which to the naked eye looked the same as the stock ones, but i used the ones they sold me anyway. I am going to try my stock outer races with my thrust washers and see if that helps...may have slightly too much pre-load on it.

(again i am very new to this stuff and if i worded something wrong, please let me know so that i can learn and better my self....all i know is from reading the BGB, different web articles, the link that dudeman supplied and a bit of an IQ above room temperature)
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Re: Rear Stock Open Diff to Torsen Advice...w/ Video Explanation

Postby 88gt4DE » Tue May 31, 2011 10:20 am

At this point may be your best plan just to see if it makes a difference. I've never had great luck messing with toyota differentials. Seller offer any tech support or just sale and good luck ?
Rob
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Re: Rear Stock Open Diff to Torsen Advice...w/ Video Explanation

Postby DudeMan » Tue May 31, 2011 11:02 am

You could always take it to a drivetrain shop and have them take a look at it.

The diff is already out of the car so I'm sure they wouldn't charge too much to diagnose the issue, double check your work or just reinstall it.

I can tell your more of a DIY kinda guy, like myself, but sometimes it doesn't hurt to have a professional offer a hand.

Gearing is one of the rare circumstances where I would let someone lay their hands on my car/truck..
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Re: Rear Stock Open Diff to Torsen Advice...w/ Video Explanation

Postby LegacyofDan » Tue May 31, 2011 1:26 pm

88gt4DE wrote:At this point may be your best plan just to see if it makes a difference. I've never had great luck messing with toyota differentials. Seller offer any tech support or just sale and good luck ?


of my knowledge a just 'sale and good luck'

DudeMan wrote:You could always take it to a drivetrain shop and have them take a look at it.

The diff is already out of the car so I'm sure they wouldn't charge too much to diagnose the issue, double check your work or just reinstall it.

I can tell your more of a DIY kinda guy, like myself, but sometimes it doesn't hurt to have a professional offer a hand.

Gearing is one of the rare circumstances where I would let someone lay their hands on my car/truck..


yeah true it should not cost too much; you did hit the nail on the head, i am very much a DIY sort of individual...haha even asking for help on the boards took me a good day to suck up my pride and make a post. After work i am going to try my stock races and if i still have the binding i guess i will bring it a gear shop. :'(

Thank you guys for the assistance it is appreciated :)
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Re: Figured it out :)

Postby LegacyofDan » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:16 pm

Upon great frustration and stubborn-ness i was able to figure it out.

Now the fine degree of back lash is not perfectly in spec. And everything is golden, spins like a top everything is beautiful.

How you might ask? Well first we should ask how come i did not do more reading on the internet all about doing something like this.
Cause i have blonde hair. Terrible foresight and 20/20 hindsight.

With the self insults out of the way. Upon reading the links that dudeman provided me and just more just wrapping my head around it all(not much to understand, very straight forward once you get it all...esp cause i am kicking myself for not doing what i did today) I was able to come up with a few reasons why it was 'binding' on me even tho the backlash and runout were in spec.

Well i took all apart down to just the diff and ring gear. Whipped out my trusty dusty set of semi-shitty 'OEM' calipers, and measured everything again. And upon realizing that my two thrust washers were two different sizes(even though when i first took it apart i measured them and realized it but it held little value cause the difference one was .3 mm and i did not actually "understand" how it would effect everything) I had an epiphany.

Well one thrust washer was .3 mm larger than the other. and of course that one was on the ring gear side, thus pushing the ring gear .3 mm further again the pinion gear and creating some minor binding. I guess some how when i had all the parts out on paper towel as i was working everything they got swapped between the sides. So i put .3 mm larger thrust washer on the other side, and the smaller one on the ringer gear. Thus it adjusted the ring gear .3 mm away from the pinion gear and freed it of it's binding. Checked everything twice and everything is 100% in spec. And it is operating correctly.

I guess what i learned that even if it so painfully close to spec, if it is off by just the any conceivable amount then there is a problem. The runout was 100% def in spec and the back lash was so just barely off before.

Well i learned a lot. I now know way more about how a diff works than i did before(and i know still plenty more for me to learn :) ) and for the i could not be any happier.

Thank you again for everyone who provided help/advice or anything(facebook included; this was too long for facebook).
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Re: Figured it out :)

Postby 88gt4DE » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:24 pm

Good job man , now get that baby down here for an alignment asap for the trip !!!! 8)
Rob
1988 ST165 - 77K - Project ---> http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=31483&start=240
2000 Toyota Tundra SR5 - 162K - DD - Thanks 97JZA80
2007 Toyota Rav4 - 110K - My girls DD
1999 Honda Civic - 116K - Highway Runner
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Re: Figured it out :)

Postby LegacyofDan » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:10 pm

You said you are going to be around Saturday?

I will likely try and sneak up around then.
My inspection is Monday. :)
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Re: Figured it out :)

Postby celi_wabbit » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:29 pm

88gt4DE wrote:Good job man , now get that baby down here for an alignment asap for the trip !!!! 8)


Hey Rob, what do you charge for the 4 wheel alignment? I need one since I replaced my suspensions to coilover.
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