Front Drivetrain Noise: Video !

Lets talk clutches and everything drivetrain related

Re: Front Drivetrain Noise: Parts installed

Postby phattyduck » Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:43 pm

How are your tires? Any feathering that might cause the noise? I know that worn/feathered tires can sometimes sounds like bad wheel bearings, and the sound can change when torque is applied to them.

-Charlie
Members don't see the above ad. Register now - it's free!
'89 Camry LE Alltrac 3S-GTE - SV25/ST205 hybrid
'99 4Runner SR5 4WD 5VZ-FE
Previous: '88 Camry LE Alltrac 3S-GE BEAMS, '90 Camry 3S-GTE, '90 Camry DX
User avatar
phattyduck
Established Member
 
Posts: 1045
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:09 am
Location: Pasadena, CA

Re: Front Drivetrain Noise: Parts installed

Postby Corey » Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:03 pm

Hey,

New tires I'm afraid. Changed them with Continental Extreme contact DWS in December. No change to the noise.

I also had a bent wheel straightened - no change either.

I've now put about 300 km on these new parts. The noise is getting worse again. Soon it will sound the same as before the part swap. :shrug:

Maybe the bearings and driveshafts had nothing to do with this? Maybe the act of swapping out the parts temporarily changed something.

I'm going to take it to a dedicated drivetrain shop today with my old driveshafts - see what they make of it.
Image
User avatar
Corey
GTFour God
 
Posts: 4123
Images: 50
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:12 am

1989 Toyota Celica

Re: Front Drivetrain Noise: Parts installed

Postby tubasteve » Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:52 pm

If you under tqed the wheels....then drove it...then re tqed it, might have killed bearing and hub, again.just saying.
-jr
feb. 1990 alltrac red one: fun machine http://tinyurl.com/Tubasteve
5x114 conversion: http://tinyurl.com/nu3qnez
Image
User avatar
tubasteve
Established Member
 
Posts: 1149
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:48 pm
Location: temecula, ca(951)

Re: Front Drivetrain Noise: Parts installed

Postby Corey » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:03 pm

I considered that.

But 137 was toyota's original torque rating for the ST165 and ST185 in 1990. So it wasn't necessarily undertorqued right?

Also, the noise is identical. Still that Womp womp womp. Still only around 2500-3000 rpm and only when torque is applied (like while maintaining speed on level stretch of road, or engine braking downhill)

Edit: Also hear it while accelerating through that rpm range.


I quickly stopped in at a drivetrain shop. Went for a quick rip around the block with the mechanic. His first impression is pinion bearing in the transmission somewhere.

Ugh
Last edited by Corey on Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
Corey
GTFour God
 
Posts: 4123
Images: 50
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:12 am

1989 Toyota Celica

Re: Front Drivetrain Noise: Parts installed

Postby tubasteve » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:28 am

Can you load and unload when driving left then right making the sounds come and go as you go left and right?
-jr
feb. 1990 alltrac red one: fun machine http://tinyurl.com/Tubasteve
5x114 conversion: http://tinyurl.com/nu3qnez
Image
User avatar
tubasteve
Established Member
 
Posts: 1149
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:48 pm
Location: temecula, ca(951)

Re: Front Drivetrain Noise: Parts installed

Postby Corey » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:35 am

Absolutely zero change when swerving left and right.

If the noise isn't occurring (cruising below 2500ish rpm or well above 3200), I can turn left or right to full lock and it wont appear.

But if it is occurring (I'm in the rpm band with constant power on to maintain speed), I can swerve left or right and the noise wont change.

I'm afraid that the noise now appears to be right back to where it was before I had these parts installed. It's now just as loud, and the rpm band it occurs at has widened back up again.

I have no clue what is going on :crazy:

I rechecked the axle nut torque today. Still 180.
Image
User avatar
Corey
GTFour God
 
Posts: 4123
Images: 50
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:12 am

1989 Toyota Celica

Re: Front Drivetrain Noise: Parts installed

Postby Corey » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:08 am

I'll try again to record it. Maybe i'll get lucky.
Image
User avatar
Corey
GTFour God
 
Posts: 4123
Images: 50
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:12 am

1989 Toyota Celica

Re: Front Drivetrain Noise: Parts installed

Postby bridge47 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:11 am

Only read pg 1 and 4 as my connection is screwy, but have you tried to replicate this noise with engine turned off but car still rolling?

Have you tried an infared thermometer on each wheel hub or caliper after a long drive to check for differing temps?
Yet another black 93 ST185.....

Facts are stubborn things.
bridge47
Club Member
 
Posts: 674
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:33 am
Location: Woodland Park, CO

Re: Front Drivetrain Noise: Parts installed

Postby Corey » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:14 am

Hey,

That is a great idea. I'll try that now actually. I've tried it with the gearbox in neutral and coasting, but not with the engine off.

I'll give it a shot and see if I can get my phone to pick up the noise.

Thanks for the help everyone.

Edit: And negative on the IR thermometer.
Image
User avatar
Corey
GTFour God
 
Posts: 4123
Images: 50
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:12 am

1989 Toyota Celica

Re: Front Drivetrain Noise: Parts installed

Postby Corey » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:57 am

Video success!
Throughout the video I stay in 2nd gear and maintain the RPM's in the range where the noise is produced. The noise is just as audible in 1st and 3rd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-0MdkUy ... e=youtu.be

Note that at 2:15 I start feathering the throttle - you should be able to hear that I can make the noise come and go like a light switch.

I've got pretty good speakers hooked up, hopefully it's audible for everyone.

I tried coasting with the engine off - I couldn't generate the noise. (not in video)

It definitely needs some torque going through the wheels.
Last edited by Corey on Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Image
User avatar
Corey
GTFour God
 
Posts: 4123
Images: 50
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:12 am

1989 Toyota Celica

Re: Front Drivetrain Noise: Video !

Postby tubasteve » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:07 am

good job on video.

i had a rear wheel bearing on a subi do this, wouldnt change with going left of right, or un-loaded. i said diff, i swore diff was bad, even on the rack sounded like a bad diff......it was BOTH rear wheel bearings. hard to tell w/o being there. but thats what i would say thoough, it was hard to pin-point the noise. customer supplied wheel bearings and said, just do them as i already bought them......man i could not tell you how i felt, had several drive line guys say diff as well, and priced it out, we replaced the diff fluid but was clean as new, and no shavings....

So i listened to my paying cusotmer as i reccomended against it....we did one then drove, and wow, what a difference. their car had 54k on it, dd, and noever abused.


somemore insight that i could give. sorry you have to hear this...

-jr
feb. 1990 alltrac red one: fun machine http://tinyurl.com/Tubasteve
5x114 conversion: http://tinyurl.com/nu3qnez
Image
User avatar
tubasteve
Established Member
 
Posts: 1149
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:48 pm
Location: temecula, ca(951)

Re: Front Drivetrain Noise: Video !

Postby Corey » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:15 am

I'll have to take a close look back there the next chance I get.

I guess all the attention has been towards the nose of the car because that's where it appears to be coming from while driving.

I'm not even sure if the noise is audible from the outside of the car. I should ask someone to follow the car and see if they can hear it.

Thanks again!
Image
User avatar
Corey
GTFour God
 
Posts: 4123
Images: 50
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:12 am

1989 Toyota Celica

Re: Front Drivetrain Noise: Video !

Postby tubasteve » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:19 am

the chassi ear we had on the car even gave us insight to thinking it was the trans just transfuring the noise down the driveshaft it was so horrid.
feb. 1990 alltrac red one: fun machine http://tinyurl.com/Tubasteve
5x114 conversion: http://tinyurl.com/nu3qnez
Image
User avatar
tubasteve
Established Member
 
Posts: 1149
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:48 pm
Location: temecula, ca(951)

Re: Front Drivetrain Noise: Video !

Postby Corey » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:50 pm

Crawled under the tail of the car.

So far only checked rear right wheel bearing. I removed caliper and disk and tried to wiggle the hub. No play that I could see or feel.

I then checked the torque on the nut. First at 137 ftlbs - was good. Then torqued to 166.


After that I started checking the driveshafts. No torn boots.

I found a not insignificant amount of play in the whole system. With the parking brake on, I could grab the inner flange of either rear driveshaft and twist the driveshaft a visible amount.

This play is not only due to play in the differential, but play in the inner joint aswell.

I can also turn the propshaft back and forth while the car is in gear, sitting on the ground, with the parking brake on. This turning produced a "clink" noise at the end of the play, and if extra torque was applied by hand, I could just get the rear driveshafts to visibly turn ever so slightly - barely noticeable.

There was also play in the other direction - with one wheel off the ground, and e-brake off, I could turn the hub back and forth, turning the whole driveshaft, but not affecting the propshaft.


Anyone know if this much play is normal? Next time someone is under their car, I'd really appreciate it if they could see how much play is in their system.

I also checked the rear diff mount, it appears to be intact.

Thanks again
Image
User avatar
Corey
GTFour God
 
Posts: 4123
Images: 50
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:12 am

1989 Toyota Celica

Re: Front Drivetrain Noise: Video !

Postby tubasteve » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:21 am

My car us in the air every night.
except tonight. Lol
-jr
feb. 1990 alltrac red one: fun machine http://tinyurl.com/Tubasteve
5x114 conversion: http://tinyurl.com/nu3qnez
Image
User avatar
tubasteve
Established Member
 
Posts: 1149
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:48 pm
Location: temecula, ca(951)

PreviousNext

Return to Drivetrain Central

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests