st165 compared to later alltrac (trannies!!)

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st165 compared to later alltrac (trannies!!)

Postby Swagger_Wagon468 » Thu May 31, 2012 6:37 am

So... im wanting to convert my 94 camry auto coupe to AWD.
i was wondering whats the difference in the st165 and st185-++

Is the st165 tranny the same as the later years? Is it weaker?
I ask because i found a awesome deal on a st165 stock. All together but needs a gas tank.

Just wondering if i should hold out for a newer alltrac?
FYI i will be having the tranny fully built and able to withstand high HP!. (7-800)
Thanks for the info in advance.

-Jonathan
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Re: st165 compared to later alltrac (trannies!!)

Postby RoAdbOy » Thu May 31, 2012 8:43 am

All 'E'-code gearboxes are heavy duty transaxle type gearboxes.
but of course toyota improved the quality of internals from this gearboxes later such as the syncro designs.
i think a E50F ST165 gearbox can handle with big hp's but can't say a number :)
why you don't choise a later ST185 E151F or a ST205 E154F gearbox?
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/emTLn.jpg[/IMG]
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Re: st165 compared to later alltrac (trannies!!)

Postby RoAdbOy » Thu May 31, 2012 9:03 am

some E-series Gearbox Ratios:


E50F (ST165):
Final Drive: 4.285
1st: 3.583
2nd: 2.045
3rd: 1.333
4th: 0.972
5th: 0.731

E150F (ST185):
Final Drive: 4.285
1st: 3.384
2nd: 1.913
3rd: 1.333
4th: 0.972
5th: 0.731

E151F (ST185) (Europe and [RC, Carlos Sainz, Group-A] Limited versions):
Final Drive: 3.933
1st: 3.583
2nd: 2.045
3rd: 1.333
4th: 0.972
5th: 0.731

E152F (ST185 Rally):
Final Drive: 4.285
1st: 3.230
2nd: 2.142
3rd: 1.518
4th: 1.258
5th: 0.731

E153 (SW20 [MR2 Turbo]):
Final Drive: 4.285
1st: 3.230
2nd: 1.913
3rd: 1.258
4th: 0.918
5th: 0.731

E154F (ST205):
Final Drive: 4.285
1st: 3.384
2nd: 1.913
3rd: 1.258
4th: 0.918
5th: 0.731

gear ratio speed calculator:
http://www.apexgarage.com/tech/gear_ratios.shtml
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/emTLn.jpg[/IMG]
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Re: st165 compared to later alltrac (trannies!!)

Postby Swagger_Wagon468 » Thu May 31, 2012 4:38 pm

Thanks for the info man.
The reason i was wondering about the st165 tranny is because i found a great deal on a whole car.
Needs a wiring harness.
But that doesnt matter. I only need the drivetrain. So assuming the tranny will be fully built to jandle 800+hp, u think the st165 would be a ok choice?

Thanks .
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Re: st165 compared to later alltrac (trannies!!)

Postby ZeroDrift » Thu May 31, 2012 5:08 pm

I'm sure parts are extremely difficult to come by for these older transmissions. When you say built, you mean opened up and replace parts that are worn? Initially I want to think of stronger gear sets, input shafts and shifting forks; however I'm not sure that any exist?

From what I've read from others is that the differentials are the weak link in these cars. Some people weld em solid, while others are looking into other options for stronger differentials altogether. I'd imagine that so long as you don't launch too hard, the tranny should hold up well.
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Re: st165 compared to later alltrac (trannies!!)

Postby Swagger_Wagon468 » Thu May 31, 2012 9:13 pm

thanks for that info buddy.

these parts will be used as a daily driver with massive power... but also will be using for occasional drag, drift, whatever.

i guess i will hold out for a st205...

anyone know of any for sale?
doesnt need a motor, or it could be bad... just need the rear subframe, diff, axles, tranny etc.
thanks
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Re: st165 compared to later alltrac (trannies!!)

Postby phattyduck » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:33 pm

There's always something up on eBay. I don't have any other recommendations though, other than to get a clip, not a 'complete motor set' or similar...

Oh, and good luck getting everything aligned and in the right place on a car that was never AWD... :twisted:

-Charlie
'89 Camry LE Alltrac 3S-GTE - SV25/ST205 hybrid
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Re: st165 compared to later alltrac (trannies!!)

Postby UtahSleeper » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:38 pm

phattyduck wrote:There's always something up on eBay. I don't have any other recommendations though, other than to get a clip, not a 'complete motor set' or similar...

Oh, and good luck getting everything aligned and in the right place on a car that was never AWD... :twisted:

-Charlie


+1 If you take this on, take lots of pics. I want to see the work you have to do to make the drive shaft and rear end fit.
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Re: st165 compared to later alltrac (trannies!!)

Postby ZeroDrift » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:21 pm

Here is a forum member that is pushing quite a bit of power through the stock tranny: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=39203

He did weld the center and rear diffs solid though. His comments:

sleeper wrote:
ZeroDrift wrote:Awesome time!

I'm very curious as to how the transmission is holding up to the power and launches. How does the car drive with the rear and center diffs welded?



It`s holding up good, guess it will brake at some point, but haven`t happened yet.

The car is great to drive with the diffs welded, but that`s only at above 20mph.. parking and hard turns at really low speeds is bad..
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Re: st165 compared to later alltrac (trannies!!)

Postby Swagger_Wagon468 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:22 am

Thanks guys. I will start a build log when i start the project.
Im not worried about getting it all aligned. I think that will be easy compared to some other parts of this conversion.
I am curious however, about where the exhaust route will be. Hopefully there is enough room along side the driveshaft to run it next to it. If not, ill have to make a new route.
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Re: st165 compared to later alltrac (trannies!!)

Postby phattyduck » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:50 pm

Swagger_Wagon468 wrote:Thanks guys. I will start a build log when i start the project.
Im not worried about getting it all aligned. I think that will be easy compared to some other parts of this conversion.
I am curious however, about where the exhaust route will be. Hopefully there is enough room along side the driveshaft to run it next to it. If not, ill have to make a new route.
The Alltrac body has a completely different floorpan to accommodate the exhaust. There is a extra bump in the tunnel all the way down on the passenger side. Also, the trunk floor is raised to fit the gas tank and spare tire, as the AWD subframe takes up most of the room where the FWD gas tank would otherwise go.

-Charlie
'89 Camry LE Alltrac 3S-GTE - SV25/ST205 hybrid
'99 4Runner SR5 4WD 5VZ-FE
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Re: st165 compared to later alltrac (trannies!!)

Postby Swagger_Wagon468 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:47 pm

phattyduck wrote:
Swagger_Wagon468 wrote:Thanks guys. I will start a build log when i start the project.
Im not worried about getting it all aligned. I think that will be easy compared to some other parts of this conversion.
I am curious however, about where the exhaust route will be. Hopefully there is enough room along side the driveshaft to run it next to it. If not, ill have to make a new route.
The Alltrac body has a completely different floorpan to accommodate the exhaust. There is a extra bump in the tunnel all the way down on the passenger side. Also, the trunk floor is raised to fit the gas tank and spare tire, as the AWD subframe takes up most of the room where the FWD gas tank would otherwise go.

-Charlie


Ok. So ill probly have to make a new exhaus tunnel? Shouldnt be too bad. Also, i thought about the gas tank, i plan on just putting a fuel cell in the trunk.
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Re: st165 compared to later alltrac (trannies!!)

Postby Redrkt01 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:40 pm

Just wanted to clarify a few things:

The E50F didn't come with a 4.285 diff in the US or Canada. It came with a 3.933.

Parts for the E50F are easy to find because they are shared with many other trannys. You can find E154F parts that are in common with all the other ST165/ST185/SW20 options as well as trannys used by the Camry and Corolla. AS long as the tranny is an E series, you'll most likely find what you're looking for.
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