Found a front LSD!!

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Re: Found a front LSD!!

Postby BADNEWS » Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:57 am

Spectra1 wrote:Im in depending on how much of a deposit would be needed.


I'll call John this week and get more details on what he would want for a down payment and his guess on a time frame.
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Re: Found a front LSD!!

Postby ALLensTRAC » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:50 pm

I am still waiting to hear what Quaiffe says but I am somewhat interested. I will have to liquidate some stuff to cover 2500 though. This could be done by the 6 month to 1 year timeframe that Pat said. I guess we could start an interest list :shrug:

On another note Temperacerguy: Welcome back!!!
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Re: Found a front LSD!!

Postby tjdouble07 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:32 am

Man, sometimes it sucks being married... :P I really want to commit to this, although at this moment I can't. In a few months I will see if I can justify this to my wife as to why I "need" to take this out of our tax return... Now if this was a bullet-proof rear diff, I would find a way...
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Re: Found a front LSD!!

Postby BADNEWS » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:56 pm

tjdouble07 wrote:Man, sometimes it sucks being married... :P I really want to commit to this, although at this moment I can't. In a few months I will see if I can justify this to my wife as to why I "need" to take this out of our tax return... Now if this was a bullet-proof rear diff, I would find a way...


I just took the leap and Ordered a Cusco Rear. Probably won't get it for 2 more months. Maybe if this goes through you'll get a front and order yourself a Cusco.
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Re: Found a front LSD!!

Postby RedCelicaTRD » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:35 pm

tjdouble07 wrote:Man, sometimes it sucks being married... :P I really want to commit to this, although at this moment I can't. In a few months I will see if I can justify this to my wife as to why I "need" to take this out of our tax return... Now if this was a bullet-proof rear diff, I would find a way...


Put on your big-boy pants and make it happen!
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Re: Found a front LSD!!

Postby BADNEWS » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:12 pm

RedCelicaTRD wrote:Put on your big-boy pants and make it happen!


So does that mean you're possibly in for one if this gets going?
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Re: Found a front LSD!!

Postby RedCelicaTRD » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:13 pm

No, but Trevor should buy one instead of having a broken car.
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Re: Found a front LSD!!

Postby BADNEWS » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:03 pm

Got an email from John today:

Ryan,
Yes, I've obviously gotten your e-mails. I should have time to call tomorrow. In short, this is pretty much how I remembered the diffs going together and I think we could come up with a replacement. I think it would be most practical/economical to make both of them helical gear (torsen/quaife) style. That may or may not require/allow eliminating the viscous coupler.

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Re: Found a front LSD!!

Postby toayoztan » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:23 am

So I may be interested. However, I've not been up to date with anything regarding any of our differentials (front, center, rear, what's weak, what's not, etc.) - too busy with school the past 3.5 years and interviews at the moment.

To make this a more proper GB and hopefully grab more interest and attention, can anyone give a break down on what advantage this has over the stock unit, how much power can we expect this to hold, what warranty would be in place, what race application this mainly applies to, would this allow the car to be streetable, what rear diff setups can this be used with and shouldn't be advised using with, would people have to replace this themselves, etc..

I love that something is getting started on this though.

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Re: Found a front LSD!!

Postby bmt » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:31 am

Can anyone explain in very SIMPLE terms the advantage of a front lsd? In real world conditions AND for track conditions? Obviously they help with traction but what is the effect on under/over steer? Wheel lift under hard cornering? When the wheel comes back down? I understand that on a straight line launch it would help with traction off the line so for drag applications it would be awesome. Has anyone driven a car with a front lsd and their alltrac in the same track/conditions? So they can give us an honest appraisal of the advantages.

I just want a bit of HONEST knowledge, rather than "I reckon it would be cool to have"

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Re: Found a front LSD!!

Postby BADNEWS » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:43 pm

Here is some info I found:

evo stuff wrote:This helical limited slip differential (LSD) takes the place of the Lancer Evolution's open front differential, giving the RS mechanical front and rear differentials that split power delivery between their respective left and right wheels, and a center differential that splits the power between front and rear. The front differential's helical design provides it with smooth operation and superior responsiveness. Small in both size and weight, the helical unit does not require special oil or additional maintenance.

Helical-type limited-slip differentials offer several advantages over the clutch-type or viscous LSDs. Viscous limited-slip units tend to wear out after extended use, as their oil is heated and reheated until it degrades, rendering the unit ineffective. Clutch-type differentials provide good off-the-line traction, but the 50/50 stability that's beneficial in a straight line is not so desirable when a vehicle is turning. The helical-type limited slip provides better durability and performance when it's needed most: while turning. Unlike an open differential, which shifts power to the wheel with less grip, the helical LSD constantly shifts the bias toward the wheel that has more traction.

Under straight-line acceleration, power remains evenly split between the front wheels. While cornering (e.g. accelerating out of a turn), the helical LSD directs power away from the inside wheel and toward the outside wheel, allowing the driver to begin accelerating earlier and exit the turn at a higher speed, without losing traction in the process.


more evo stuff wrote:I'd say durability/reliability... Not a fan of clutch type front diffs on anything but a race car that gets frequent servicing. People can say well I did this, or I did that. However, 10k (or sometimes MUCH less) miles later, someone who truly knows what a car is supposed to do will notice the clutch type diffs wearing out. Whereas the gear types like Quaife, you take it out when you wear out the car from around it (sleight exaggeration )... Pardon the grammer/spelling from the phone/freeway.

For example, my stock rear diff is shot... My older OE RS front diff still going strong. IMO the RS front is fine for the road racer/daily driver. However, the drag racer/auto-X clutch pedal side stepper would be better served with the Quaife/Wavetec type units for the front. For the rear, being that the Evo likes to hike a rear leg, I WOULD stick with a clutch type out back for obvious reasons. Not to mention, it's easy to get to, and about $250ish for "good" rebuilds.


even more evo stuff wrote:I've raced my hillclimb car with both the Cusco and Wavetrac. You could feel/hear the Cusco working, very aggressive and you could tell it was working to pull you out of the corners. The Wavetrack works, but you don't feel like its working as hard. My Cusco was a 1.5way diff so they're slightly different in that respect, but I'm primarily comparing thier on-throttle performance.

FWIW, I run on mixed surfaces, both tarmac and gravel and have a MoTeC MDC to control the ACD system. Rear of the car had a 2-way Cusco for a bit, and now I've got a Carbonetics 1.5way in the back.


more info:
http://www.houseofthud.com/differentials.htm

http://magnusmotorsports.com/tech-articles/kaaz-vs-torsen-differentials/
Last edited by BADNEWS on Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Found a front LSD!!

Postby BADNEWS » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:55 pm

toayoztan wrote:So I may be interested. However, I've not been up to date with anything regarding any of our differentials (front, center, rear, what's weak, what's not, etc.) - too busy with school the past 3.5 years and interviews at the moment.

To make this a more proper GB and hopefully grab more interest and attention, can anyone give a break down on what advantage this has over the stock unit, how much power can we expect this to hold, what warranty would be in place, what race application this mainly applies to, would this allow the car to be streetable, what rear diff setups can this be used with and shouldn't be advised using with, would people have to replace this themselves, etc..

I love that something is getting started on this though.

Bryan



Well Pat (alltrac 101) and myself plan on running these. Pat is making 900awhp and I should be in the area of 700-750 awhp. WE both are not real worried about these holding up to our power levels. The Quaife style (helical gears in pockets) are VERY strong units. The factory rear torsen T2 style where the gears rotate on a shaft are a weaker design.

I'll talk with John about his warranty if he even has one.

The torsen is more streetable then the clutch type for 2 reasons. 1. Never wears out. It's gears ,so there are no wear parts like a clutch type. 2. quieter

you can run whatever you want in the rear. stock open, stock torsen, or cusco (clutch type). Those are your 3 options currently.
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Re: Found a front LSD!!

Postby rallygarage » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:30 pm

You are absolutly right. Clutch type front and center is no good for street. TRD marketed them for GrN rally aplicatons. It was sold for the most part by TTE from Germany along with some other sourses. I have them in my Dog transmission used for rally and you can feel chatter from transmission when you make slow sharp turns on pavement. It doesn't like paralel parking. Also front left axle stub eventually brakes and I had to have reengeneered version.
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Re: Found a front LSD!!

Postby underscore » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:36 pm

Ok so reading all that, I would imagine we only want a helical design as almost everyone has a street car or uses their Alltrac in more than just a straight line.
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Re: Found a front LSD!!

Postby rallygarage » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:29 pm

From what I know yes. Helical is better in front and center then plated LED for street.
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