E154f trans Upgrades? Handling 600+AWHP

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E154f trans Upgrades? Handling 600+AWHP

Postby mgnt232 » Sat May 03, 2014 9:49 pm

New to alltrac.net, but not celica's. Ive been on 6gc.net for years and mr2oc for a while now.

Anyway in about a year im going to have all my parts (hopefully) for a 5sgte build (going into a 6gc). I want to obviously be able to use the 600+hp, and not just spin tires at 120mph, so I'm going to use the E154f for AWD traction. There are not many people on 6gc making more than 400-500, which from what Im reading is a 'safe' limit for the trans.

Im wondering what the options are to upgrade. From the gears and synchros, to CV joints, to the driveshaft its self.

I've never done any work within a transmission really, aside from replacing the clutch/flywheel and throw out bearing, so all the info you have, throw it my way :D
Thanks everyone for any help! I will be relatively active here too, a lot of good build thread with info I'm starting to read
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Re: E154f trans Upgrades? Handling 600+AWHP

Postby ALLensTRAC » Sun May 04, 2014 1:08 am

First let me say welcome to the group!! There is a member here who just did the AWD conversion on his 6th gen and it wasn't terribly difficult IMO. He has a project thread here with good pics.

As to your trans question, get the lowest mileage E154 you can get and it will take as much as you can throw at it compared to other AWD transmissions. Look at alltrac101's project thread. He had one last 7 years at 700+whp before it blew up. As for upgrades you can get a straight cut gear set from Franavehicles.com but it's pretty pricey! This comes with billet shift forks as well( a common failure point).

It seems that all the high horsepower guys have had center diff failure more than power created trans failure. Just get one and have it fully rebuilt to OEM specs, get a multi plate clutch, clutch type rear diff, and use quality fluid.

Also ACPT used to offer a carbon driveshaft but I believe it's being sold by DSS now at a ridiculous markup. This probably wouldn't fit your car anyway as it's for the 185 not the 205 which I believe is shorter IIRC.

When you get a chance post up pics of your car or start a project thread. We all love pictures!!! Good luck with it!
Allen

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Re: E154f trans Upgrades? Handling 600+AWHP

Postby RedCelicaTRD » Sun May 04, 2014 3:10 am

I dont know if we can count Pat. His car only gets driven a few hundred miles a year.....
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Re: E154f trans Upgrades? Handling 600+AWHP

Postby mgnt232 » Sun May 04, 2014 6:48 am

Wow yeah 5k for the new gears? thats a bit much lol But I do really want to do it 'right' the first time. I love working on my car, but doing ti halfassed once then right the second time is getting a little old :P

Im going to buy a front and 'rear' clip from an ST205, and most clips claim low miles. But its really just a gamble on if the trans is/will stay in working shape.
I found the 185 driveshaft, but nothing for the 205 so far. Im still in debate on just going all in for the new gear set, and not having it be my weak point.
I'm not going to be back in the states for about a year, and when I get back looking to keep the build cost 15-20k (including everything)
Small List of parts-
2.3L '98+ 5S block
Wiseco 88mm pistons
Eagle Rods
5s Crank
6266 Turbo (Journal bearing unless I read a lot more significant benefits to the BB)
RacerX Top mount Exhaust manifold (may have to extend somethings to make it fit)
ATS Head (3rd Gen)
Gen 3 S2 (274) Cams
ID 2000 Injectors / ATS top feed rail
3rd Gen clip (ST205, all the little parts are a pain to find, plus the E154f Trans)
RacerX Side feed manifold
Walbro 485 (E85 compatible)
Haltec ECU (not sure on this yet, but looks promising)

Here are some pics from my celicas (its like cutting off most of the images on my screen… idk why? maybe someone does)

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: E154f trans Upgrades? Handling 600+AWHP

Postby mgnt232 » Tue May 06, 2014 6:59 pm

Anyone know if there are any different driveshafts made? Or am I stuck with the stock one?
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Re: E154f trans Upgrades? Handling 600+AWHP

Postby underscore » Tue May 06, 2014 8:22 pm

ACPT makes a CF one.
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Re: E154f trans Upgrades? Handling 600+AWHP

Postby Hotrodhendrix » Tue May 06, 2014 8:31 pm

Think that is for 185 though not sure of 205
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Re: E154f trans Upgrades? Handling 600+AWHP

Postby ALLensTRAC » Tue May 06, 2014 8:58 pm

underscore wrote:ACPT makes a CF one.


It is too long or short for the 205 but I can't remember which. And ACPT will not make it anymore. You have to get it through DSS and they want like 1400$ for it!! They said they "changed" the Yoke design to make it stronger. Yeah cuz the original can't take abuse lol!
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Re: E154f trans Upgrades? Handling 600+AWHP

Postby Lamont » Wed May 07, 2014 3:14 pm

mgnt232 wrote:Wow yeah 5k for the new gears? thats a bit much lol But I do really want to do it 'right' the first time. I love working on my car, but doing ti halfassed once then right the second time is getting a little old :P


Please don't take offense, but big power costs big money. No sense in aiming so high if $5K for a transmission upgrade is too much. Your budget of $15-$20k would need to be at the very least doubled to make 600+ AWHP safely and reliably IMHO. Think of it this way: Toyota engineered this car to handle 200 HP at the flywheel, now you want to triple the HP to the wheels safely. It will cost you a small fortune and you will surely break every weak link in the drivetrain along the way and have to engineer all parts to handle this type of power. I noticed you have 6Gen ST's as your base platforms so just getting the engine mounted in the engine bay is going to cost a bit more since this won't be bolt in like a GT. I say do a ton of research first before you buy anything and check out some of the high HP MR2 and Alltrac builds to get an idea of the type of work and finances it takes to reach these types of HP numbers. Just my $.02 :shrug: good luck on your project, and start a project thread here so others who want to do the same type of build have an idea of what's involved.
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Re: E154f trans Upgrades? Handling 600+AWHP

Postby CMS-GT4 » Wed May 07, 2014 3:23 pm

It might be cheaper buying a 5th gen and making look like a 6th gen then trying to make your 6th gen setup like a 205.
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Re: E154f trans Upgrades? Handling 600+AWHP

Postby mgnt232 » Wed May 07, 2014 7:47 pm

Yeah, I hadn't really accounted for the drivetrain not being able to handle the power(and costing more than the clip to upgrade). I have PM'ed a few of the high hp guys here, but no responses yet.
Ive been on mr2oc poking around for info as well. The mr2 guys have an available option for upgraded Transaxles, and CV joints (only running up like 2k) and really the weak point is just the inner CV joints. If your e153 is in good shape and you use good fluid, you can still run something like 500hp.

It seems like there isn't a definite solution for an ST205, or its like a hidden secret :shrug: lol. I like being able to find info on parts, and do the research, but it seems like I would just have to call up DSS Racing.
I guess I can look into the alltrac option, I just love the 6th gen.

I will start a build thread when the time comes, but I'm still overseas for another year. Ill start sourcing larger parts like the clip soon, but no real work will be done for a long time. Just looking for all the info before I jump in.

And it's no offense lol I am realizing the cost of the drivetrain is going to add like 7k to the build at least.
I have two ST's now, but I have swapped a 3sgte into one (making 320WHP and 300FTLBS back when I had the CT20B, I have a TD06 setup now). I plan on buying a GT shell though, not because its really any more difficult to do than an ST, but they have some parts I will need and generally have more options (power everything, sunroof, ect.)
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Re: E154f trans Upgrades? Handling 600+AWHP

Postby CMS-GT4 » Wed May 07, 2014 9:38 pm

Cone fensport and quaife have all made gearbox internals as well if you decide to shop around.
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Re: E154f trans Upgrades? Handling 600+AWHP

Postby sleeper » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:28 pm

Unless you run the car on the drag strip with drag slicks, you won`t have a problem with gearbox failure at 600awhp. ( ofc everything will brake if you try hard enough, even a v160 from a supra will easily brake at 600rwhp if pressed.. )
I have been running my car with the same gearbox ( st205) for the last 6 years. including hard launches on drag strip. i have broken many axels, but no catastrophic failures on the gearbox.
But now after all this time, i have actually managed to crack the casing itself somehow.

So one gearbox after all this time isn`t that bad at this power level.. :)
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