My GT42R st185 project

Talk about your project car here

Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby dragstang86 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:55 pm

aus jd 2703 wrote:Long as you have the cash and a spare car lol 500awhp and reliability don't go well.
I could only dream of that much hp


Yea it definitely isn't a daily driver. Actually I have yet to ever even drive it with the exception of on the trailer and off the trailer into the garage lol. I have had a couple higher horsepower street cars, 750whp trans am, a bunch of mustangs but like I said I am still trying to learn the do's and don'ts of the 4 cylinder stuff. I don't want to make it something I have to work on all the time, as I have plenty of those cars now, so I do want it to be fairly reliable. I just don't want it to be able to get out of its own way too. A fun awd car is one thing I have never owned and I love all tracs so what better car to build!
Members don't see the above ad. Register now - it's free!
92 All trac
dragstang86
Club Member
 
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 4:49 am
Location: Severn, MD

Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby toayoztan » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:49 am

dragstang86: You know, I just 2 seconds ago I was actually wondering what your sn meant heh.

On these cars, 500+ hasn't been hit too often, and reliability isn't exactly established just yet due to lack of long term feedback from a good amount of members.

To all four wheels, 500hp will hook to the ground pretty nicely and still be really fun. If you want to go balls out, you will need tons and tons of money for this car to get the power and drivetrain you need.

Would be nice to see you go for it!

I plan to get mine there eventually, but i'm only setting the bar to 500+ right now, then probably redo the setup on the same or different block once I get a bit more time on my hands. For now, I can at least modify everything else (like you've been reading on my thread!).

Bryan
2017 Pilot Elite
2014 Juke NISMO RS
1994 Supra TT 6spd
1993 Alltrac - http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=37466
1977 Celica GT Liftback
2015 Grom
1977 GL1000
User avatar
toayoztan
GTFour God
 
Posts: 6734
Images: 1
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:51 am
Location: Oklahoma

1993 Toyota Celica

Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby dragstang86 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:10 am

toayoztan wrote:dragstang86: You know, I just 2 seconds ago I was actually wondering what your sn meant heh.

On these cars, 500+ hasn't been hit too often, and reliability isn't exactly established just yet due to lack of long term feedback from a good amount of members.

To all four wheels, 500hp will hook to the ground pretty nicely and still be really fun. If you want to go balls out, you will need tons and tons of money for this car to get the power and drivetrain you need.

Would be nice to see you go for it!

I plan to get mine there eventually, but i'm only setting the bar to 500+ right now, then probably redo the setup on the same or different block once I get a bit more time on my hands. For now, I can at least modify everything else (like you've been reading on my thread!).

Bryan


Being such a rare car I want to try and maintain the spirit of the car as much as possible. So I don't want to get into making it an all out track car or anything so I'll probably just stick around the 500 mark. Make it clean, handle well and quick enough for what I'm going to use it for. It's not something I am going to be running at the track except maybe once to see what it will do so I'm hoping the diff, axles, transfer case etc. all hold up fine. As always, thanks for your input!
92 All trac
dragstang86
Club Member
 
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 4:49 am
Location: Severn, MD

Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby tjdouble07 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:29 am

l0ch0w wrote:Trevor, are your COPs running through some sort of CDI controller? If so which one?


I'm currently running an MSD DIS-4 plus HO


In other news, looks like I might be seeing what I can do with a set of Yaris/Prius COPs if they are as good as I've been led to believe they are... Looks like they might just work, fitment wise... :smokes:

Image
Trevor

Image
1990 Celica GT-Four, runs 10's
User avatar
tjdouble07
Club Member
 
Posts: 621
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:22 am
Location: Hooper, UT

Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby Mafix » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:50 pm

you had denso coils correct?

i have the aem version with a dli and no issues...but only half your power.
Mafix
Gold Member
 
Posts: 5877
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:56 pm

Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby l0ch0w » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:07 pm

I just dont know of any COP based coils that can take more than 2 or 3 ms of dwell...

Dwell time for the most part = spark power. The more dwell a coil can handle, the more power it can push out. Its entirely a function of inductance load on the primary windings to be fed to the secondary windings. At some point you reach the limits of physics... The drawbacks to coils that can handle more dwell time is that they also have cooling issues. Beyond a certain point, 8-10ms or so, it can also start to effect maximum rpm. Do you know what the dwell time is on these yaris coils I think its 3ms but im not sure? If its still only 2 or 3 ms max then I dont think its going to solve your breakup problems. I know I keep pushing them... but the lq9 coils handle up to 6ms of dwell, and are internally controlled, so even if you mess up and set the dwell to 10ms it will internally regulate to 6 and run just as cool.

Ethanol and q16 require stronger sparks to light off correctly than does standard pump gas, which means if you want to run those fuels you are going to need to be able to light them off at 9000+ RPM. Flex fuel vehicles typically have a spark plug gap of .050 or greater just for reference. What is your plug gap?

AEM and a few other companies have CDI based coil on plugs, and while CDI can run very well, if you ever plan on ever driving it on the street, you basically need to buy two of them. They are still so highly unreliable that few get more than a thousand miles out of the controller before it shits the bed. I know you want the clean look of coil on plug, but it may be inevitable that you will have to go with external coil packs...

Hopefully these yaris coils can do the trick, although I cant imagine they are much different than the 1zz COPs...
Andrew

1991 Red Alltrac
Frankenstein engine, lots of mods :P
User avatar
l0ch0w
Established Member
 
Posts: 1137
Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 7:38 pm
Location: Lansing KS

1991 Toyota Celica

Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby dragstang86 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:52 pm

What is the problem with keeping a distributor with a good coil and ignition? Distributor shafts breaking at high rpm or??
92 All trac
dragstang86
Club Member
 
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 4:49 am
Location: Severn, MD

Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby Hic » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:42 pm

l0ch0w wrote:I just dont know of any COP based coils that can take more than 2 or 3 ms of dwell...

Dwell time for the most part = spark power. The more dwell a coil can handle, the more power it can push out. Its entirely a function of inductance load on the primary windings to be fed to the secondary windings. At some point you reach the limits of physics... The drawbacks to coils that can handle more dwell time is that they also have cooling issues. Beyond a certain point, 8-10ms or so, it can also start to effect maximum rpm. Do you know what the dwell time is on these yaris coils I think its 3ms but im not sure? If its still only 2 or 3 ms max then I dont think its going to solve your breakup problems. I know I keep pushing them... but the lq9 coils handle up to 6ms of dwell, and are internally controlled, so even if you mess up and set the dwell to 10ms it will internally regulate to 6 and run just as cool.

Ethanol and q16 require stronger sparks to light off correctly than does standard pump gas, which means if you want to run those fuels you are going to need to be able to light them off at 9000+ RPM. Flex fuel vehicles typically have a spark plug gap of .050 or greater just for reference. What is your plug gap?

AEM and a few other companies have CDI based coil on plugs, and while CDI can run very well, if you ever plan on ever driving it on the street, you basically need to buy two of them. They are still so highly unreliable that few get more than a thousand miles out of the controller before it shits the bed. I know you want the clean look of coil on plug, but it may be inevitable that you will have to go with external coil packs...

Hopefully these yaris coils can do the trick, although I cant imagine they are much different than the 1zz COPs...


From the first hand experience, 2.4ms of dwell, 2L 16V engine, 10:1 comp ratio.
2.7bar of boost from 9180 efr
No breakup on 9000 on straight meth, 4400cc of injection per cylinder.
Hic
Club Member
 
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:22 pm

Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby klue » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:38 pm

Any fuel with higher octane is going to be more resistant to ignition, thats the point right :D I can't see you needing excessive dwell to light off the mixture. Never had to run a car past 3ms to get it to light properly myself. Dwell is the charge up time required to charge the coil which is not just a function of the coil but also your ignition timing
Getting rid of the dizzy is nice to increase the tuning resolution, but necessity? not really you can hit 4-500hp with a stock ignition system new OEM components
facebook.com/xiiimotorsports
#xiiimotorsports ON instagram
User avatar
klue
GTFour God
 
Posts: 3893
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:47 pm
Location: Greater Toronto Area

Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby gearhead313 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:46 pm

i'll be curious to hear the plug type and gap...

...back to the peanut gallery
ST165 counter:
#2597 - fail
#3193 - fail
#xxxx - sold
#4598 - sold to Canada eh
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/gearhead313/turbosticker.jpg[/img]
User avatar
gearhead313
Established Member
 
Posts: 1358
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:17 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

1988 Toyota Celica

Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby l0ch0w » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:55 pm

^Same here...

I like overbuilding things myself and 2.3ms on meth with 40psi just seems awful weak for such a high powered car. Ignition strength = hp, why not capitalize on that?

I would wager that you would have breakup if u pulled your gap up to .045 inches... Just sayin

The point I was trying to make is that coils that can't handle more than 3ms of dwell need to use a smaller gap. It's common sense that charging a coil that can store more spark energy will take longer. If you over charge a coil that can't take the longer dwell times out will simply overheat...

Im comfortable with 50 thousandths gap on my coils... Are you?
Andrew

1991 Red Alltrac
Frankenstein engine, lots of mods :P
User avatar
l0ch0w
Established Member
 
Posts: 1137
Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 7:38 pm
Location: Lansing KS

1991 Toyota Celica

Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby sleeper » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:09 pm

If you buy a quality cdi box like the autronic 500r or M&W it will not die. ( from my experience, msd cdi boxes WILL die at some point! and i will never buy one again.. )

l0ch0w wrote:I just dont know of any COP based coils that can take more than 2 or 3 ms of dwell...

Dwell time for the most part = spark power. The more dwell a coil can handle, the more power it can push out. Its entirely a function of inductance load on the primary windings to be fed to the secondary windings. At some point you reach the limits of physics... The drawbacks to coils that can handle more dwell time is that they also have cooling issues. Beyond a certain point, 8-10ms or so, it can also start to effect maximum rpm. Do you know what the dwell time is on these yaris coils I think its 3ms but im not sure? If its still only 2 or 3 ms max then I dont think its going to solve your breakup problems. I know I keep pushing them... but the lq9 coils handle up to 6ms of dwell, and are internally controlled, so even if you mess up and set the dwell to 10ms it will internally regulate to 6 and run just as cool.

Ethanol and q16 require stronger sparks to light off correctly than does standard pump gas, which means if you want to run those fuels you are going to need to be able to light them off at 9000+ RPM. Flex fuel vehicles typically have a spark plug gap of .050 or greater just for reference. What is your plug gap?

AEM and a few other companies have CDI based coil on plugs, and while CDI can run very well, if you ever plan on ever driving it on the street, you basically need to buy two of them. They are still so highly unreliable that few get more than a thousand miles out of the controller before it shits the bed. I know you want the clean look of coil on plug, but it may be inevitable that you will have to go with external coil packs...

Hopefully these yaris coils can do the trick, although I cant imagine they are much different than the 1zz COPs...
89 ST165: 9.89/144 daily driver during summer. 711AWHP.
sleeper
Club Member
 
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:56 am
Location: Norway

Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby sleeper » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:14 pm

The stock st185 rear diff will not handle that kind of power. you could either weld it or buy a aftermarket diff. it will hadle it if you do.

axles will hold up just fine.. they can take ALOT of abuse.
Gearbox will also hold up ok, buy it is possible to kill it. And if you do, just get a st205 box. It will take a little more, and as long as you actually use the clutch it will hold up just fine ( I have only killed one over the last 4 years at about 750hp)

( just try to take up the slack before you launche.. )

dragstang86 wrote:
toayoztan wrote:dragstang86: You know, I just 2 seconds ago I was actually wondering what your sn meant heh.

On these cars, 500+ hasn't been hit too often, and reliability isn't exactly established just yet due to lack of long term feedback from a good amount of members.

To all four wheels, 500hp will hook to the ground pretty nicely and still be really fun. If you want to go balls out, you will need tons and tons of money for this car to get the power and drivetrain you need.

Would be nice to see you go for it!

I plan to get mine there eventually, but i'm only setting the bar to 500+ right now, then probably redo the setup on the same or different block once I get a bit more time on my hands. For now, I can at least modify everything else (like you've been reading on my thread!).

Bryan


Being such a rare car I want to try and maintain the spirit of the car as much as possible. So I don't want to get into making it an all out track car or anything so I'll probably just stick around the 500 mark. Make it clean, handle well and quick enough for what I'm going to use it for. It's not something I am going to be running at the track except maybe once to see what it will do so I'm hoping the diff, axles, transfer case etc. all hold up fine. As always, thanks for your input!
89 ST165: 9.89/144 daily driver during summer. 711AWHP.
sleeper
Club Member
 
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:56 am
Location: Norway

Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby sleeper » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:16 pm

tjdouble07 wrote:
dragstang86 wrote:I was watching a couple of your GT35 videos on youtube. I was wondering how much power you ended up making with the 35 and what was the fastest 1/4 you ended up with? I ask because I just bought a GT3582R for mine. Thanks

Bryan


I ended up making 550 whp on my 35r setup, with a best 1/4 mile time of 11.7 on street tires.



What did you trap?
89 ST165: 9.89/144 daily driver during summer. 711AWHP.
sleeper
Club Member
 
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:56 am
Location: Norway

Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby l0ch0w » Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:34 pm

sleeper wrote:If you buy a quality cdi box like the autronic 500r or M&W it will not die. ( from my experience, msd cdi boxes WILL die at some point! and i will never buy one again.. )


So you fancy the $1000-1500 price tag on those units too???

Im cool with $50 for a set of used lq9 coils thanks...

Im all about paying to play and doing things the right way, but the price differential here is just too much IMO for whatever the small benifits to it might be...

At least my $1500 standalone and my $2000 turbo kit can get me to 500whp I just cannot justify buying a $1000 box that "might" help me eek out another pony or two over a system that in comparison is almost free...

At any rate, If others have had no issue with this kind of ignition system with this fuel, at those power levels and boost levels, I would imagine its time for you to pull your plugs out and read them so that we can stop speculating about what this could be...
Andrew

1991 Red Alltrac
Frankenstein engine, lots of mods :P
User avatar
l0ch0w
Established Member
 
Posts: 1137
Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 7:38 pm
Location: Lansing KS

1991 Toyota Celica

PreviousNext

Return to My Project

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron