My GT42R st185 project

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Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby RedCelicaTRD » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:44 pm

Keep this thread to Trevor's car or questions about Trevor's car. If you guys want to bitch about what ignition system might be better when your running fuel x, with plug y, and coil z all while driving on a Tuesday do it elsewhere :D
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Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby l0ch0w » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:35 am

Sorry :/ I got carried away...
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Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby 03whitegsr » Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:24 pm

Dwell time is not a great indicator of spark energy.

Two coils can easily have the same spark energy but VERY different dwell time requirements. Or to put it another way, two coils can have the same dwell time but dramatically different energy storage capacity. Simple formula for you, the energy stored in an inductor is E=1/2*I^2*L where I is the Instantanous current and L is the inductance. Two coils, same inductance but one has half the DC resistance of the other. Which one stores more energy once fully charged? The one with the lower DC resistance, and by a factor of 4. Double the inductance and it only doubles the energy. As you can see, there are certain places that pay off more then others when it comes to coil design.

These smaller coils are DESIGNED to reach a full charge very quickly but still have high inductance values. I believe these coils are designed to deliver about 100mJ of spark energy. Sure, there are plenty of ignition boxes that deliver 150+mJ of spark energy, but here is what ~100mJ is capable of:

http://www.sparktechignitions.net/store ... x&cPath=26
These coils have been PROVEN to over 900 WHP on a 4 cylinder.
I won't try to claim these are the end all be all solution though and these coils are going to be at there limit at those power levels, just like the CBR coils and MSD box are. The benefit of these over the CBR setup is it gets rid of the additional parts and makes for a more simple setup.

Honestly, if you want to go over 1000WHP on a 4 cylinder, you probably will have to go to a strong ignition box (M&W, Autronic 500R, etc.) and high powered coils. That's a lot of cylinder pressure to overcome. The one thing Trevor has working for him is his engine actually tends to like a good amount of ignition timing. This means the spark tries to ignite before cylinder pressures get extremely high like they do when you are down near TDC.

As for spark gap, who cares if you can run 0.040" gap? Want to know where large gaps help? Cruise conditions...that's about it. A large gap is simply there to hopefully increase the chance of hitting fuel in a cylinder filled with minimal amounts of fuel during part throttle conditions. Once you step on the gas pedal, there is plenty of fuel in there to hit and now it becomes an issue of can you jump the gap to get an ignition event at all.

Every high HP 4 cylinder I know of is gaped tight. 0.015 to 0.020 for probably 95% of them. If your coils can light off a 0.040" gap at 45 psi, then that's awesome. But these will make the power with a 0.020" gap and look a lot better doing it.
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Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby Hic » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:02 pm

Trevor will get a tested solution, simple and non expensive, without myriad of additional shit. That is what he needs and gets. Not more boxes, ready to die.
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Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby 03whitegsr » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:12 pm

We shall see how they work if he goes that way.

That Yaris coil is actually off my car though for him to test fit. If it doesn't work, he can just blame it on me. :)

Only reason I really like these coils is they are simple. Nothing more in the system besides ECU, wire, and igntion coil. The fewer parts to fail, the better IMO. The fact they have already been proven to the power level he's at though doesn't hurt either.
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Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby Hic » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:36 am

03whitegsr wrote:Only reason I really like these coils is they are simple. Nothing more in the system besides ECU, wire, and igntion coil. The fewer parts to fail, the better IMO.



Exactly. Why to have additional boxes like msd and shit, plust the cables that can and do fail* Brackets? wiring to this all?

My god :D
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Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby 05christj » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:06 pm

I have been out of the loop for a few years and just got done reading all 36 pages, simply amazing. Only reason I came back here was cause I was talking to my neighbor (one of thoes SRT4 guys) he asked if I had ever owned a turbo car I told him I have had 2 alltracs and he said these cars were junk. I got verry defencive and told him "a friend of mine back home has a 800AWHP alltrac". I guess I'll have to go back over there and correct myself and tell him 900WHP. Damn I hate being wrong.
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Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby tjdouble07 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:05 pm

Made a few additions to the car this spring (had some time, being out of school for the summer and all), including a set of wilwoods up front, a thicker radiator core, wiggins clamps for the charge piping (no more blowing off IC pipes on high boost, :D ) and a larger throttle body. Bought my own tig welder last year so it was a good excuse to get some aluminum welding practice in. Also relocated my alternator. Hope to get a chance to take my car to Miller Motorsports Parkway in a few weeks and see how she does around the track on lower boost.

Also my stock wheels no longer fit with the big brakes, so no slicks for a while. Drove to the drag strip a few weeks ago on the street tires, and on about 30 psi and a very soft 1.9 second 60 ft, the car ran an 11.01 at 138 mph. So I turned up the boost for a second pass and got on it a little harder out of the hole and blew up my rear diff, for about the 4th-5th time. I had a spare so I switched it out the next day, but I think until I figure something out (either 17" wheels w/drag radials or slicks, or at least a beefier rear end) I think I'm done with drag racing for a while.

I'll try to take some pics of the new goodies this weekend and post them up.
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Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby toayoztan » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm

Did you weld up your own radiator with a thicker core or just buy a bigger one and made it fit?

Just curious what you're running for cooling that will sufficiently keep the motor cool driving around town.

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Re: My GT42R st185 project (New dyno results on pg 31!)

Postby tjdouble07 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:14 pm

I'm running a vw scirocco style dual pass radiator in the location of the stock AC evaporator. I had to weld a different radiator outlet tube on and cut off and weld up the filler cap, as there is no room for it. Mine is located on a custom crossover radiator inlet pipe where the top of the stock radiator was located.
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Re: My GT42R st185 project

Postby lumbercis » Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:48 pm

What kind of diff were you using? Stock Torsen? What parts are breaking?

Have you considered going to a Cusco clutch style setup?
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Re: My GT42R st185 project

Postby tjdouble07 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:46 pm

lumbercis wrote:What kind of diff were you using? Stock Torsen? What parts are breaking?

Have you considered going to a Cusco clutch style setup?


Yes, stock torsen. Here's the damage:

Image
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Pretty much the same thing with all of them.

I have considered trying a Cusco, but for $1600+, I'll have to hold off for a while.
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Re: My GT42R st185 project

Postby CMS-GT4 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:13 pm

From what I have read even on the 205 boards is the stock torsen is not good for a whole lot of power. Seems good for BPU cars. I will likely stick with mine for a while, but someday I hope to get a clutch pack for the rear.
Of course I would do some research to see how much power the clutch type hold up to as well. It would be a shame to spend that much money and it not hold up to your power level.
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Re: My GT42R st185 project

Postby AFCor » Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:17 pm

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Your drain plug needs a haircut...
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Re: My GT42R st185 project

Postby lumbercis » Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:56 pm

Wow! Awesome carnage pics! :evil:
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