Project Elephant: DeeCee's GT4A

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Re: Project Elephant: DeeCee's GT4A

Postby DeeCee » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:45 am

Sometimes I lose things in the garage, then find them again. Bearing accidently pushed off the bench
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There you are :)
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Hmm HKS
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Shiny HKS Silent Hi Power Exhaust
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Machine tig welding on the resonator
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Hangers mig welded on
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Pipe mig welded on
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Flange mig welded on
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Machine bender marks on the outside of the bend
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JASMA approved
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Wrapped some carpet around the resonator to protect while I installed. Tip, easier to drop the subframe slightly to help get the pipe over the subframe.
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Have to line up the resonator bracket with the bracket on the body
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And installed. What surprised me was how low the resonator hung down from the heatshield. If I build an exhaust system, I'll be mounting the resonator higher to prevent dragging the resonator on speed bumps
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Accessories provided with the exhaust system
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A bit of lube before putting the rubber hanger bushes on
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Build quality of the HKS system is okay. Pipe doesn't sit flush with the flange. Some peneration of the weld into the pipe
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The pipe sits very close to the subframe reinforcement bracket
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I help my friends out on occasion. Richard's engine mount on his honda was broken, time to replace.
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Picked up a 2nd hand manifold with gen 3S mounting flange. A HKS pod filter adapter came with the manifold.
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Design is a 4 into 1. You have probably seen this design on 4AGE or 4G63 applications. Driven Performance in NZ sell this unit in stainless. Schedule 40 black pipe so built strong.
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Pipes are not elongated to match the ports.
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Merge collector is not the greatest, but taking into account the age of the manifold, we have come along way in terms of our thinking regarding exhaust gas velocity and direction.
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Merge is pretty reasonable on the inside
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Time to remove the studs. Cleaned them up a bit before getting some nuts on them for removal
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Double nut trick works to remove the stud
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Manifold mounted. Some thoughts about this manifold.

Location: Manifold locates turbo to centre of the engine. Factory position is offset to allow more room for the dump pipe relative to the AC pump. Have to also take into consideration the location of the water pump inlet from the radiator.
Wastegate outlet: the outlet being on the gearbox side of the engine is not optimal. It means either routing the WG piping between the block and turbo, or routing the pipe between radiator and turbo. In NZ, it is a requirement to have exhaust gases recirculated back into the exhaust sytem. This does means that the WG piping has to go either front or rear of the turbo. Front side routing may interfere with fans, rear side routing may interefere with oil feed to turbo and/or the oil return back to the sump.

So I have a manifold that doesn't provide optimal position of the turbo, at least for the Holset HX35 I plan to use. Hmm
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Next fun part. To mount a nut to this stuf is almost impossible. Also can't use a ratchet or torque wrench and can only use a spanner..
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Test fit of the Holset with an adapter on the factory manifold. Turbo position allows for better routing of the dump pipe.
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But problem with the adapter. Pushes the turbo out too far (or I have very large turbo..) and would interfere with the radiator. I did consider relocation of the radiator under the support panel, or in front of the panel (which may interfere with the radiator latch vertical support)
Main issue is that the factory twin scroll exhaust housing is rather large. Research showed that while the 12cm housing would be good for response, I'd still have to weld the WG flap shut and use an external wastegate for more optimal control as the factory wastegate actuator is between 17 and 23psi. A bit much for me at this stage.
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Second issue, compressor housing hits the gearbox and would prevent the clutch release actuator from being mounted. Repositioning the actuator still wouldn't prevent the compressor housing hitting the box
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Friends use my garage. This time it is to fix an exhaust leak. Leigh scavanged some metal from my scrap pile and got to work
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clean up metal before welding
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Tig time!
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While Leigh fixed his exhaust, I installed the bearing that I found. Trick: tap the seal in with the handle side of a screwdriver, moving slowly around the seal to gradually put it in. Works a treat every time.
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Leigh still at work..
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Using the aftermarket manifold, the holset didn't fit on to the head. as it interfered with the oil cooler. I borrowed Nick's exhaust housing from his HX40. Firstly, test fit to ensure no intereference with the oil cooler - check
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checking the position of the turbo and if it would interfere with the gearbox and clutch fork actuator - seems like it would fit
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And plenty of room for the compressor housing.
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Side trip - got to visit a local industrial park and what used to be our national industrial research labs. Interesting note, they had a wind tunnel which I was curious about as Jonno was exploring downforce for his car due to our interest in Time Attack. Little did I know that the wind tunnel was for scale models.
Here are some of the models they used to test wind effects in city scenarios.
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To get the correct velocity of the wind, the tunnel is a long straight which feeds air into a little control room where they setup the models for testing. Testing costs were $1200 a day.
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Re: Project Elephant: DeeCee's GT4A

Postby DeeCee » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:14 am

An emotionally charged day to say the least.

To start off with, I caught up with the panel beater I had been dealing with and he's all casual about borrowing a trailer so I can go pick up my car.
The trailer being borrowed, he hadn't even arranged with the owner, so that wasn't a very good scenario if issues had arisen out of that.

Drive up to the panel shop where the car is being held and the shop owner says he won't release my car unless I pay $1600 for work done on the car. I'm like WTF, excuse me? My panel beater hasn't informed me of any of this. It seems like my panel beater has sub-contracted out the work to this panel shop and not informed me.

Suffice to say I'm am fucked off with the guy I have been dealing with from the start. I was up front about constant communication and I set expectations. Granted, there have been delays in providing parts or doing some slight things different, but it has been 8 long months from the start of this and it has been a constant chase to get shit done. I've offered money and assistance to push things along and all I got was excuses and the push off. Seriously, when someone is offering money, why not fucking take it and get the work done.. I don't get it?!

So now I'm left with a bill for what knows has been done. I don't even know if my panel beater or some apprentice did the bloody car painting or not!

Much to sort out including what has (or hasn't) been paid to the panel shop, what deal my panel beater had with the panel shop and what I need to do to get my car finished.

Today is not a good day. From here on in, I'm only dealing with the panel shop to get the car done as fast as possible. The panel beater isn't getting another damn cent out of me as I've already ponied up $2500..

SO FUCKING OVER MODIFYING CARS - should never have got to the point of me trying to sort shit out. Worst decision ever to do a cash job and I only went this way because of the verbal guarentees and my thinking at the time that I was helping someone who needed the money.. obviously they need money, but aren't willing to work get the money.. and I'm not stingy when I want shit done to a good quality level..

*angry, frustrated, disappointed and emotional drained Dave..

why fucking bother anymore................... gah!
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Re: Project Elephant: DeeCee's GT4A

Postby DeeCee » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:21 am

On a lighter note, I have started into the guard moulding process. The gelcoat and first layers of fibreglass have been applied. Now it is building up the layers to gain strength in the mould, a long with some well placed mdf to minimise flex in the mould, then build out the split mould pieces. From there, repair the moulds as necessary, then start on the guards themselves. Plenty of photos, no time or want to upload due to sorting paint shit out and the fact that I need to spend time building the moulds and getting the guards made so I can send them to be cleaned up and painted.
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Re: Project Elephant: DeeCee's GT4A

Postby Hotrodhendrix » Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:42 pm

dang sorry to hear all that man. Sounds like the panel beater owes you some cash.

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Re: Project Elephant: DeeCee's GT4A

Postby DeeCee » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:56 pm

I'm not concerned about the cash. He has done the repair and prep work which is always a decent proportion of the job.
$900 materials, $1600 labour for prep and repair I feel is reasonable, but I have no idea what the other $1600 is for.
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Re: Project Elephant: DeeCee's GT4A

Postby bmt » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:22 pm

I dont know what i can say to make you feel better about the situation. It's a shitty deal all round. I know there are times when i was so over my car i just wanted to burn it to the ground and be done with it. Has the painting been done to your satisfaction? Is it worth your time and frustration to pursue it through legal channels?

It's good that you vent on this as too many people can look at modifying cars as easy when they look at the final product. They don't see the trials and expense that goes into it. I think I've spent roughly 20 grand on my car so far and I still have paint to go and I work in the industry so did my own fabrication work. I think if I sold my finished car I would be lucky to get 10 grand out of it. Why bother? Because ultimately you'll get a car that NO ONE else in the world has and YOU built it.

Kia kaha brother and you shall prevail!!
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Re: Project Elephant: DeeCee's GT4A

Postby DeeCee » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:33 pm

Thanks Bruce. No use going through legal channels. Not worth the time wasted IMO. Work has been done on prep and repair, it's just taken a hell of a long time to get the car where it is now.

I will be talking with the panel shop to go in and inspect the car to ensure it is to my satisfaction before taking it out. I will talking with the shop directly to work out a direct relationship, cutting out the useless panel beater. Off to work, may email you later if I'm not to busy chasing car shit and sorting out clients
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Re: Project Elephant: DeeCee's GT4A

Postby CSAlltrac » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:38 pm

To me it sounds like the bodyman used the shop facility without owners or managers knowing. Now the shop wants their portion due to the car taking up real estate. Ive seen that happen before and its ultimately the fault of a shady body guy. Tell the shop you want a copy of your signed authorization form, tell him if he cant provide it that you will be by to pick up your car. He cant legally hold your car at his facility unless you signed a document (Auth. form) giving him permission to perform the work as well as your acknowledgement that he can hold the car if the financials are not paid in full.
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Re: Project Elephant: DeeCee's GT4A

Postby CMS-GT4 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:40 pm

Sorry to hear about your panel beater mess. That reminds me of the problem I had with my painter. Its made me want to handle more contracts and work with, what turns out to be more expensive people, because of fearing the risks. Just sulk a bit and soon your passion for the car can fire up again. Hopefully your not in the same boat as me with a spouse looking at every hardship the car gives and trying to get you to sell the project. I get bribed with Evos and Sti's at least a couple times a month to give up.
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Re: Project Elephant: DeeCee's GT4A

Postby DeeCee » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:47 pm

I believe the panel beater has hired the shop facilities to complete the work. I did query with the panel beater about additional costs, but I need an itemised breakdown of the $1600 to know what I am paying for. I'll be pissed if I've had to pay storage fees for the last two months for nothing. Understanding where all parties stand and what work has been done by who is the key thing here.

Not worried about the signed authorisation form tbh. I will work with the shop to get the outcome I want. Money talks in this situation. I could have taken the car if I paid the money up front, so I don't see it as an issue.

Josh - yes I had the choice to work with actual businesses instead of a cash job. It is just unfortunate that all the assurances amounted to nothing at the end of the day and I'm left with the clean up.

And I don't sulk. I sort shit and keep moving forward. Whats the use of spiraling into a state of unknown? I don't operate like that.
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Re: Project Elephant: DeeCee's GT4A

Postby DeeCee » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:18 pm

In 10 minutes, the panel shop answered all my questions and I confirmed that I will be dealing with them direct going forward. That was easy wasn't it?
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Re: Project Elephant: DeeCee's GT4A

Postby underscore » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:21 pm

Wow, that's an incredibly fast bounce from bad luck to good luck. Nice work!
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Re: Project Elephant: DeeCee's GT4A

Postby DeeCee » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:44 pm

I had figured out what needed to be done last night. After some meetings this morning I called the panel shop, made it clear that by the end of the conversation I would be dealing with them and asked them to answer some questions. Satisfied with the answers, I confirmed that they are dealing with me direct and not the panel beater.

1) My panel beater sub-contracted the painting out to another panel shop
2) Bonnet and bumpers still haven’t been painted as they are apparently waiting on me for the guards
3) Rear guards still haven’t been rolled
4) $1600 was the deal between panel beater and shop. Nothing has been paid thus far, so I will take over that contract. May cost another $400 for the guard rolling as it may break the paint – should have been done in prep (sigh)

Next steps
1) work with panel shop only going forward
2) have words with the ‘panel beater’
3) get the car finished.

Will be a waste of time trying to deal with the panel beater any further. I’d rather deal direct and pay money (it’s on the panel shops books btw, not a cash job) and get stuff done rather than waste any further time.
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Re: Project Elephant: DeeCee's GT4A

Postby CMS-GT4 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:48 pm

DeeCee wrote:And I don't sulk. I sort shit and keep moving forward. Whats the use of spiraling into a state of unknown? I don't operate like that.


Well that is the best way to handle it.
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Re: Project Elephant: DeeCee's GT4A

Postby DeeCee » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:03 pm

Yep - have to work through these types of scenarios instead of getting upset. As I normally do, took a couple of steps back, evaluated the scenario, postulated steps to resolution, refined the preferred solution and as of 10.00am, started the steps of that solution.
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