'91 All Trac Project "Mia"-Engine Rebuild Time

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Postby TXCajunman » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:43 pm

you have done a great job... i wish i was that far along on mine ( and i was more mechanically inclined). and thanks for writing this all up learned some stuff .. and good luck hope your on the road soon
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1990 Celica Alltrac
1991 Acura Legend
2003 Kia Sorento --wife's
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Postby Fox 21 Alpha » Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:13 am

Well its been awhile, but I'll post up some updates that I can remember

I finally put in a older HKS turbo timer I bought used off the boards. Works like a charm. I installed it in the center console, in the cassette tape area, upright so its velcroed against the side closest to the driver, so when you open the center console, the display is staring you in the face. Was a little tricky to drill through the center console pieces, and it stretched the harness to the very limit to reach, and splicing the ebrake wire sucked, but was definitely an awesome mounting position (got the idea off of someone else's car on the board). I highly recommend it for anyone putting one in. I'll have to put up pics of what looks like. I do have pics of the wires running by the shifter and my ground point however, which is the screw hole for the shifter surround on the driver side.

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Ground Point, can barely see the metal ground piece on the side of the screw hole.

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Other then that, I've been DDing it for awhile. Definitely a fun car, gets some looks, and a whole lot of looks when I took it up to a little party/open house day at the track. Haven't raced it yet in Auto X or Gymkhana yet or anything, but definitely can't wait too. Boost is very fun, and the cruise control and power windows and leather seats are awesome for the long trips to Virginia, which it just took (PA to VA Beach with detours along the way) with no problems.

However the exhaust did get some holes in it on the other side of the flex pipe now, so I'm going to patch those up and get a complete SS system in the spring. Probably 3 in, maybe 2.5 in, hopefully it won't be too loud. Looking for a double tip muffler system too, only one I can seem to find so far is on 935motorsports.

The rear diff also started leaking before the Virginia trip. That was prob 3k ago, and I still haven't done anything but buy the little metal gaskets for the fill and drain plugs. I can't tell which side its leaking out of, so I'm just going to buy the axle oil seals for both sides, drop it down and do that. Hopefully with that, new gaskets on the fill and drain, and the new liquid gasket FIPG or whatever it should stay leak free until I find a torsen to put in.

The clutch is also starting slip hardcore, even under the silghtest boost, so I've been getting nearly 20mpg driving like grandma for the past few weeks. I'm planning on pulling the engine and doing the timing belt, water pump, hoses from hell, new Clutch Masters FX300 clutch and a new Clutch Masters alum flywheel. Also going to get a new power steering pump, as it still sqeaks and the car randomly pulls all over the place, as well as randomly loose PS for 10 seconds or so once every few days. Gonna check the lines as well. Might throw in some ARP flywheel bolts too since I hear its a good idea while I'm in there. Also gonna do the rear main seal and the tensioner pulley and any other stupid stuff while I have it out.

I'd like to pull off the head and get it cleaned and maybe a new head gasket and etc etc, but what starts as a simple clutch and t-belt job ends up over 2k and putting in forged pistons and cams and shit, so I think I'll just save that for now. I think the new clutch and flywheel will be pretty fun. I now know why when I used to floor it it'd kinda slip and then jump out on me (Because I'm insane and 9 times out of 10 do it going around bends). I always thought it was the power steering, since I'm used to rack and pinion, and the PS lets me oversteer too much. But alas it was the clutch slipping and then catching real quick and surprising the shit out of me. Also explains why I could never lay rubber. I'm pysched.

I plan on upgrading the intake and exhaust in the spring, and then hopefully over the summer do some cheap basic suspension, and if I'm lucky upgrade to a W2A and CT20b. Actually all that, a torsen, and more suspension stuff, some rims, CS hood and bumper, boost gauge, some other small things and that's basically all I want to do with the car. I think that will give me a good tastefully upgraded car that has some kick without getting too insane or unreliable. Hopefully I'll pick up another one that I can do crazy stuff with, but for this one I plan on keeping the boost fairly low and close to stock. Then again I also want a MR2, to get deep in on my 83 Celi's transformation into a Rally Car, still looking for a late 90's or maybe bug eye Impreza, and racing seats would be sweet in the trac. So who the hell knows. Its been fun so far, and I can't wait to do some more.

Oh and the multi-tone paint doesn't look too bad when I do a decent wax job. Doesn't really last though, thing gets dirty hella fast. Gonna try and do one last good one before winter starts. Though it will probably get messed up when I pull the engine and start that work, which should be in a few weeks. I also replaced the brake lines and fuel line with the help of my dad, and he sanded some rust and coated it. The fuel line got kinked to hell bended it though, so I may put on a new one from the dealer next summer so I have no worries about fuel limitations. We ordered some of the brackets that hold all the pipes under the car from the dealer, hopefully we can sort that mess out. The lines weren't exactly bent perfect, and they're all over each other right now.

Bout all I got, I'll throw in some older pics I got for the hell of it. Still gotta bleed the back brakes more, the ABS still turns on early, I think still some air in the lines......

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Old
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New
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In the smoke of the turbo after its first start after I installed it
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And as always, all photos are available in the build album
http://s606.photobucket.com/albums/tt14 ... c%20Build/
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Re: '91 All Trac Project "Mia"-Engine Pull Time

Postby Fox 21 Alpha » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:44 am

Forgot to post this up a few weeks ago when I typed it on the other site's project thread

I love how I say I'm gonna be pulling the engine in a few weeks......a year ago.......haha........

Anyways as it stands now I have the car in a garage and have begun to disconnect everything. I aquired an engine hoist and a stand to work on. I picked up the Clutchmasters 300(I think if I remember right, too lazy to look it up) and a CM lightened flywheel. Also have a 93 AT tranny with 94k on it, so should help with the second gear issue. I also have a Torsen rear end, rebuilt power steering pump from Rockauto (Which people say you have to use a OEM, so we'll see how this works), and a bunch of other small parts, gaskets, wires, clamps, battery holder, etc etc.

I'm currently ordering stuff for the timing belt service, so gonna get an OEM waterpump, I have the pulleys, gonna get the tensioner, and the high volume oil pump from ATS. Also will probably order their gasket kit for the valve cover and cam shaft seals and stuff. Not sure if I want to get their other kit which has gaskets for the oil cooler and distributer, valve cover (again), etc. I also plan on doing some of the engine and suspesion mounts to poly, and some other small upgrades like that here and there. I'd like it to be a little stiffer without getting crazy for daily driving.

Oh and I also got a "complete" WTA intercooler setup off an ST205 :D . Not sure how much modification this will require, still reading up on it. Probably will get ATS's larger throttle body inlet while I'm at it. Asked the seller how many miles were on the water pump for the WTA and he never responded, so I may look into replacing that refreshing some of the lines and stuff.

My major dilemma now is choosing a turbo kit to go with. I think I'd like to get the GT28 over the CT27 as I'm looking to make more power at low boost with stock internals. ATS, KO racing, and Speed Source all make kits for them, though ATS has a kit for another $700 that includes a ROM tune, 170 thermostat, fuel pump, and bored fuel rail and fuel pressure regulator, at a savings of $274 supposedly if you just bought the basic turbo kit and everything else separate. I'd like to look at the other kits, but buying the fuel support for it can get quite expensive, namely the ECU tune, which from ATS is $600. I can look into piggy back and even maybe stand alone once we get into those prices. So we shall see. I plan on redoing the brake and fuel lines as well since they are somewhat kinked and not the greatest from our custom stuff we originally did. OEM fuel filter too.

I also have to choose an exhaust size. I'd like the 2.5, but its so close I'd might as well go with the 3in. I don't want this thing to be overly loud or anything like that, I'd like to keep it closer to stock with a nice note, so we'll see on that too.

My goal is to have about 300hp at only slightly higher then stock, maybe 14psi? I want to DD for the time being so I'd like to keep it low to keep it reliable and sane, and keep the stock internals alive.

And looks like a year later I'm still long winded....typed....ed......whatever.....
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Re: '91 All Trac Project "Mia"-Engine Pull Time

Postby Fox 21 Alpha » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:10 am

So to update...

I'm still pulling the engine. Got some of the stuff of the way, the midpipe for the exhaust is off, wiring harness is pulled out from the dash (don't forget that little A/C clip on the pass right side kick panel, almost ripped that out when I was yanking the harness out from the engine bay) [word to the wise, it should come out easy], lot of electronics disconnected, alt is off, coolant hoses (the heater hoses are a bitch), rad is out, A/C is unbolted, etc etc.

Right now I'm working on getting that asinine power steering pump bolt off, as well as my front drive shafts/axles. The suspension in this area is extremely rusted, as seen in the pictures. A codder pin broke off on the one side, I was lucky enough to grab the two lose ends and pull it out. The tie rod end castle nuts came off fairly easy enough ironically. The ball joint mounting bolts/nuts look like they will be hell though. I broke a 1/2 to 3/8 drive adapter just trying the first bolt, so I'll buying a 1/2 17mm socket and wrench to go at tomorrow.

I'm undecided how much suspension I want to replace. My inner tie rod boot I found is completely ripped, and I'm not sure if the joint is bad or not though. Everything is rusty, but all seems operational and fairly good shape considering. Moog tie rods are $100 a pop on rock auto, and I don't know if I want to spend 300 some dollars for stuff that may last until I do my suspension upgrades. I may just do the ball joints (way too rusty) and half shafts (boots are starting to crack), and redo the tie rods another day. But seeing as I have to atleast do the boots maybe its worth it, who knows.

Found I'm missing a bolt each for the alternator and A/C compressor, so hopefully I'll be able to pick those up at the dealer. I also broke my first bolt (YAY!), which holds the belt tensioner assembly to the block. Today seemed to be more like I remembered what it was like working on this car. Lots of frustration and disappointment and spending in ornate amounts of time on stupid pointless what should be 3 minute tasks lol. Everything was kinda flowing too well up to this point.

I didn't make it to the dealer in time, I wanted to see about pricing some new brake and fuel hardlines, as well as see what they price for a waterpump and some seals. I'll prob get the water pump off of 1ststoyota and get the seals from ATS, although I'm too lazy to add it all up and see if it'd be cheaper getting them through the dealer.

But anyways the important thing I have my 4k in place for my turbo/exhaust/tires. I'm eyeballing the GT28RS kit from ATS, as well as KO and Speed Source. The latter two I would need to come up with some sort of fuel and engine management, possibly a top feed fuel rail and a walbro pump; not sure where I'd go on engine management. I'd like to just tune the ECU for the time being but at $600 from ATS I might as well put it towards the real thing. ATS' kit comes with the bored fuel rail and fuel pressure regulator as well as the ECU tune, so I may just go with that to hold me over until I move to a top feed and standalone.

There is also an offer of a used GT29**[I don't remember] up on the table as well, which is supposedly low miles. I'd like to get something a little bigger then the GT28 just so I could hit 300hp reliably and easily on low boost. But its also gonna be a DD, so I'd like the fast spool up; I'm looking more to emulate the auto-x/rally/gymkhana type performance then drag racing. So we shall see. Gonna try and piece together some small other things like poly engine mounts and stuff. And find this facking overpriced C-one diff mount that apparently ass rapes your bank account from Japan and then takes the slow boat from China (almost literally). :roll:

What a great idea, let's use nuts and bolts on every other thing in the car except for the axle...
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Oh this is gonna be fun taking apart...
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Something don't look right there....
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And that's why the brakes wouldn't hold the wheel enough to take off the axle nut
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So I had to put the tire back on and lower the car back down to crack the nut...hopefully the inner bolts give fairly easily as I won't be able to do that a second time...
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Well the ball joint was brand new.....19 years ago....
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Then it sat in some guys yard for 5 years
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So here we are, sunny times....
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Rusty tie rod end but seems good condition? Maybe? I guess?
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Sway bar end links, prob leave those be for now...
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Never knew what the hell this was....
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Fan Connector [Ref for myself for when I hook up a slim electric fan]
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Found some Gates belts I ordered, should look nice spinning around :shrug:
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Found the world's greatest pen holder (Comes in handy marking all the stuff)
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New 93 tranny with 90k abouts on it
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Its a turbo whata?
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Shifter Linkage, in need of a speed source kit
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Some space opening up
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I honestly never knew that existed
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Wiring harness all pulled out
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Think I'll route the wiring harness over this when it goes back in, kinda rough going in underneath
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Some older progress photos
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Bastard Heater Hose[s]
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Mystery Connector
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Mystery Wire (hmm....lol)
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Ugly Rad Pic.... Now should I get an ASI or a Ron Davis...hmm..
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Last edited by Fox 21 Alpha on Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: '91 All Trac Project "Mia"-Engine Pull Time

Postby alltracst185 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:00 pm

Keep up the good work, looks like you got an alltrac pulled from the ocean :twisted:
st185- HKS exhaust, Aussie mid pipe and custom 3" down pipe, Tial 50mm BOV, HKS 272 cams, HKS adj cam gears, custom FMIC, HKS GT3040, Tial 38mm wastegate, AEM ems, fully built bottom end, RC 1200cc injectors, at 25 lbs and almost complete :D
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Re: '91 All Trac Project "Mia"-Engine Pull Time

Postby Fox 21 Alpha » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:49 am

Haha sure as shit wasn't fresh water!

Anyways just an update....

Got some tools to finish the suspension removal, my dad bought me a 1/2 drive socket set for an early Christmas present after I snapped my 1/2 to 3/8 adapter off, and some other small goodies as well. I also borrowed his tie rod and ball joint remover pry bars. The tie rod ends came off without much incident, the ball joints not so much.

The passenger side ball joint came off fairly easily considering, bolts broke loose after some heavy pressure via braker bar+pipe. The driver's side however, I removed the nut first, which came off easy enough. However the two nuts seemed to not be getting any looser, and they didn't "break" free. Low and behold, the effin bolts broke free a little I guess and started turning with the nuts. Except they're not supposed to, so there's no way to grab them from the back.

I needed someway to put enough pressure on the bolt to keep it from turning while the nut broke, I took a screw driver, and hammered it inbetween the ball join plate and the (control arm maybe?) piece it bolts to on the car, working on the opposite side of the bolt I was trying to break free. It worked on the right hand bolt, but not the left. I think with it being the last one I just couldn't get enough pressure. I drove a ball joint pry bar via hammer inbetween there and that still didn't provide enough pressure, as you can see in the pictures the big gap I created, at the expense of bending metal. I'll be replacing them, so no big deal. But if the stud or bolt is stuck on your ball joints, this may work, but may destroy the mounting plate in the process.

I gave up and hack sawed about a 1/3 the way through before it got too late and I went home. Turns out I got a nice dremel for Christmas so I went to the store and got a hex set, as well as a set of cut off discs and I'll just cut the damn thing off via 35,000 RPMs. Also got a stuck stud/bolt/nut remover set (you know the socket/nut thingy with teeth inside), I'm sure it will come in handy down the line.

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I also went to the dealer today to order new rear break lines and the main gas line. We kinked the gas line a little in some places when we bent our own replacing the rusted out last one, so I wanted a fresh new no kinks line. I figured kinks would defeat the purpose of a high flow fuel pump and fuel rail and FPR, etc etc. The breaks were never great on the car (see above post lol) and some of our unions weren't the greatest so I wanted to get new rear ones which we bent ourselves last time as well. Not to mention none of the shit we made ever fit back in the clips.

The gas line was only 80 some dollars (Cheap after the hassle of custom making the one that's on there now). The parts guys usually give me a little bit of a discount, but the guy in here this time that was only the second time I saw him, told the new guy to give me price code 9 or something, and that dropped it down to 40ish? Brake lines came out to about $80 a piece if I remember. Also took the opportunity and ordered a water pump since it was good pricing. For some reason they can't order the timing belt, system won't let them. Hopefully ATS has it in stock with their kit and I shouldn't have to order anything off of 1sttoyota. So all the lines and w/p are on order.

And I forgot to get two bolts from my A/C and alt that were missing :( I'll be back plenty I'm sure.

I also burned 1k of that damn turbo money on Christmas so hopefully have enough to pick up the turbo kit and some of the seals and oil pump, and everything else can wait I won't need it for awhile anyways.

Speaking of which, I think I've decided on the GT28RS. I saw the GT28701 and was a little interested in that, but ATS doesn't seem to offer it, and I couldn't find much about it, but it would probably be a tad out of range for my goals.

I'm planning to use ATS's fuel/ecu combo kit to start. I know it won't be the greatest, but I think its a good place to start to get the car on the street again, and in the future I'll probably switch to a top feed rail and an actual FPR as well as stand alone, and I should be squared away as far as that goes.

I'm hoping to get a custom 3in midpipe made with a hi flow cat, and mate with the 3in downpipe and the to-be-purchased HKS hi power exhaust and hopefully that works out nicely. Only issue I'll have is I'll prob have to leave the stock cat on for inspection day, but not sure how this whole emissions thing is gonna work out anyways. Might have to get waiver(s)....

I also plan on rigging up some sort of intake, preferably sucking atleast partially some outside air, rather then having it just sit completely inside the engine. And of course my 205 WTA set up will hopefully workout.

So GT28RS kit, 205 WTA, fuel pump and modified fuel rail and FPR, tuned ROM, and a full 3in exhaust and an intake to get it on the road. I think once the stand alone and fuel system is finished up things should turn out pretty nicely, and I can turn to the suspension.

Speaking of which, anyone have thoughts on the moog inner tie rods? Hate to made new outers to old inners, but still can't seem to justify $100 a piece. Even the raybestos or whatever "professional grade" are $70. Beck Arnely has stock inners for like $30-$40....
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Re: '91 All Trac Project "Mia"-Engine Pull Time

Postby Fox 21 Alpha » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:18 am

My last update was January HAHA. Ah I love looking back and reading my posts, with my predictions of what I'm gonna do and when, if only...

Anyways I've made some progress I guess you can say, as I currently have the engine completely disassembled save for the block haha.

Everything went pretty smoothly, with the exception of removing that control arm, as I ended up bending the bolt hole trying to pry it down off of the ball joint. Little did I know the jackstand was under said control arm, preventing it from moving down. Had I moved the jack stand into proper position off of the control arm and to somewhere else, the control arm would have pivoted down with ease and the ball joint would have been off within 5 minutes, instead of a few hours. Live and learn I guess. I got a used one off a member, and it came with some poly bushings or something already in stalled, and he included the bushings for the other control arm which I I'll throw on. I'll put some pics up later of the new stuff.

The engine removal went fairly easy compared to most things I've done on the car. I was amazed how fast it got disassembled once out of the car, then I realized its because everything is so much easier with the engine on a stand. The only problem I encountered was the crankshaft bolt, which I did not use the starter to break loose at the advice of a 3SGTE wiseman. The reasoning being having the whole engine jump in place and the stressors put on the bolt, the starter, and everything else would not be good. Anyways after nearly stripping the damn thing I was able to rent from a tool rental store and electric impact gun. I don't remember the specs, except that it was a 3/4 inch drive monster, and after a few seconds it stripped that bitch out with ease. I may have been lucky since it appears my engine was rebuilt, but definitely worth a try, and its was only like $20 for a day.

Anyways the current state of affairs has the head off, awaiting funds to go to the machine shop. I decided to replace the head gasket while I have the engine out, as I wasn't sure when the current one was put in, and I wanted to upgrade to a metal one to be sure with the increased stress from the new turbo. Turns out the damn head gasket on there was almost brand fing new, but oh well. I am not sure whether or not I want to rebuild the drive train myself, or even just disassemble. I want to learn, but at the same time I want this done quickly and right the first time. Either way I plan on getting the valves redone and everything checked out. I read about some type of service porting or something (I forget what they called it) which enlarges the ports a bit, but doesn't take it out of spec really and provides a lot of gain with little loss over the original. Although reading some other things I'm not even sure this engine will make enough power and flow enough air to gain anything from porting at all. So at the very least the valves will be checked and machined if needed, and the head cleaned. Never messed with a head, anything in particular I need to tell the machine shop or get done?

The exhaust manifold is off, waiting to be powdercoated. Was going to get it done in a red or blue along with the valve cover (differing colors, red and blue), but appears that may add to the cost to order paint. I was also considering black as it matches the turbo, but that might make it harder to detect leaks at the gasket surfaces or what not. I also saw the one guy advertising his shop saying they coat the inside of the exhaust manifolds when they do them as well, which seemed interesting and worth it, might look into that.

Can't find my damn idler pulley I bought new for the timing, so guess I'll pick another one of those up. I was thinking of powder coating the cam gears since I think I'm going to keep them stock, but not really sure if I want to, they'd probably still be ugly as hell anyways. I want to get a clear timing belt cover for the top to keep a better eye on things. I also saw some small leakage on the bottom of the steering rack, since I was going to do inner and outer tie rods anyways, I think I'll just get a new refurb rack form rock auto while I'm at it just to be safe.

Now my major problem lies with the block. Since this project took so damn long, the coolant got drained about a year ago, and has sat since then. And of course it rusted everything. Which I'm cool with, because everything from the water pump on can be cleaned or hosing replaced, and the water pump and rad are going to be all new. But the block coolant passages look like hell. So I was going to disassemble that and get it hot tanked and redone. But based off some markings I can see on the crank and rods, and the head gasket being almost brand new, it appears the block was just redone. Even the cylinder walls appear to still have the honing marks and some faint cross hatching marks on it. Not that I have a clue what the hell I'm talking about, but from what I read anyways it seems all freshly done. I was considering just manually pumping some cleaning stuff through the passages from the top, and blocking off the waterpump hole to build a little bit of pressure during this if needed, but run the risk of that stuff falling down into the cylinders and on the pistons and stuff. I already used compressed air to clear out shit from the cylinders/pistons not knowing that small particles can get in the small gap and scour the inside of the cylinder walls if the engine gets ran with it in there. Apparently some recommend this enough should warrant the piston disassembly.

My only other option to is leave it be, reassemble everything and just flush the coolant systems with everything reassembled. But I hate to buy a $500 Ron Davis rad or whatever and blow 20 years of shit and a crap ton of rust through it, as well as the new water pump and hoses and etc etc.

So I guess my question is A), how should I go about cleaning these passages, and B) If I do disassemble the block, seeing as it appears freshly rebuilt, whats the minimum that needs replaced? I assume I need new piston rings, or its at least a good idea, but other then that I can reassemble with the same crank and rod bearings? Does the cylinder walls need honed again or can it be left alone? Etc etc...

My time and budget are starting to run very thin, as I'm pretty sure I now have 3 times what I paid for the car in parts, and the damn thing ran when I bought it.



My other major question is the turbo I got from ATS. I have only a rough idea of what I'm doing, as I just read the book and go at it, I'm not a engine builder or mechanic or guy whose been working on cars for years or anything. So I'm looking at this new turbo and all its hoses, which is beautiful, but its all different from stock, mainly the hose connections since the CT26 appears to use block off plates and combo together some of the hard lines. I emailed ATS to ask what was what, and they said the water hoses go on the sides, and it doesn't matter which way its connected/flows. So I guess I'll dremel off the old hard lines for the water and slid the new hoses on? That seems simple enough. But the oil and feed lines are boggling my mine.

The CT26 had a hard line from the side of the block (big ass banjo bolt) to the turbo, like the side or something, which had the water pipes with it, and then a large hose from the turbo that drained down into the oil pan. Simple enough I guess. But the new turbo has a nice thick hose that attaches on the bottom, which you would think goes to the oil pan. But it doesn't, it seems like the size of the bolt on the end that it goes to the block where they old feed line/banjo bolt goes. And then I got a tiny hose that connects to the top of the turbo, which is supposedly the feed line, and then it goes god knows where on the engine? So any advice on this would be nice...

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Feed hose?
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Drain hose?
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And the water hoses
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And the turbo
Top as it should look mounted
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Bottom
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Front again
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And some other pics

Old Clutch
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Hosting the car
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Does not look like a good diagnostic connector
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Control Arm debacle
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Oil pan stuff, hope the gasket surfaces are clean enough
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Random stuff
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Valves
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Head
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And the block pictures

Evidence of the recent rebuild
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Not a stock head bolt
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Dirty coolant passages
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Water pump hole
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Waterpump itself
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P.S. This was only supposed to be a clutch and t-belt job. :D
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Re: '91 All Trac Project "Mia"-Engine Rebuild Time

Postby alltracst185 » Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:00 am

Good thing you went farther and did a full rebuild, That water pump looks nasty! :twisted:
st185- HKS exhaust, Aussie mid pipe and custom 3" down pipe, Tial 50mm BOV, HKS 272 cams, HKS adj cam gears, custom FMIC, HKS GT3040, Tial 38mm wastegate, AEM ems, fully built bottom end, RC 1200cc injectors, at 25 lbs and almost complete :D
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Re: '91 All Trac Project "Mia"-Engine Rebuild Time

Postby MWP » Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:40 am

The writing on the rods isnt evidence of a rebuild.
Quite often Toyota parts come from the factory with things written on them like that.

Damn that cars had a hard life :(
A car in that condition in Australia would be scrap.
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Re: '91 All Trac Project "Mia"-Engine Rebuild Time

Postby l0ch0w » Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:48 pm

That water pump is a cheapo aftermarket one too from the looks of it... I would recommend using one with correct impeller wheel.

what are your plans for block work?
Andrew

1991 Red Alltrac
Frankenstein engine, lots of mods :P
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l0ch0w
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1991 Toyota Celica

Re: '91 All Trac Project "Mia"-Engine Rebuild Time

Postby Fox 21 Alpha » Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:46 pm

Yeah the waterpump wasn't lookin to healthy, but I have an OEM one waiting to replace it :D

I'm still not sure what I want to do with the block, I'm trying to minimize my time and money getting added on right now, but I also want to do it right and have it be a reasonably bulletproof engine.

I'm not sure what the requirements are for getting the block done; ie like if I get it hot tanked, do the cylinder rings have to get replaced and everything else can be reused? Or are crank and rod bearings and/or cylinder honing a must as well? So not sure what all is reusable and what is not, so if someone could enlighten me, I'd appreciate it. I did some searching with no luck so far.

Eitherway I don't think I'm gonna forge it or overbore it or anything, I'd like to but seems good forged parts are quite expensive and looks like it'd be another 1k or so?
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Re: '91 All Trac Project "Mia"-Engine Rebuild Time

Postby alltracst185 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:55 am

OK, your decision to do a forged build all depends on what you want to do HP wise with the car?? I would personally do at least pistons, rod and crank bearings while the engine is out to have a pretty much bullet proof bottom end for a mild build (like 300-350 HP) The stock rods are good till about 500 HP. Also I would deff replace the oil pump with a either ATS high volume new OEM Toyota :wink:
st185- HKS exhaust, Aussie mid pipe and custom 3" down pipe, Tial 50mm BOV, HKS 272 cams, HKS adj cam gears, custom FMIC, HKS GT3040, Tial 38mm wastegate, AEM ems, fully built bottom end, RC 1200cc injectors, at 25 lbs and almost complete :D
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Re: '91 All Trac Project "Mia"-Engine Rebuild Time

Postby Fox 21 Alpha » Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:24 am

I got an ATS oil pump sitting in the parts pile waiting for her day :D

I'm looking to keep it fairly mild, looking more for a nice responsive tight and fun car to drive then raw power. Perhaps onto rally on day down the road... so I can't see myself going over 350-400. If so I can rip it all down again I guess haha.

I went ahead though and did decide to rip into the block for whatever reason today. Went well, rounded one rod bolt until I realize that crank is easy as pie to turn with nothing but pistons connected to it, so was able to get the bolts at a more workable angle. Lesson learned...

However I didn't do any of the checks that the service manual talks about. I have a harbor freight cheapo but digital caliper, but it was useless and a dial gauge is really needed, so I gave up after five minutes of trying to see if everything was in spec. I figure most of the bearings and stuff will be getting replaced anyways, so I just went ahead and tore into it. I just tried to keep a rough order of where everything is and all the pistons in one piece so they don't get mixed up. Not sure if it matters if a piston is installed 180 degrees rotated in its cylinder, but that's about my only snafu.

I got the block ripped down to just the block, save for about two bolts in place on the outside from stuff I took off. I guess I'll go head and get it painted while I'm at it. I'm thinking a gray should work nicely to spot leaks. I also decided to take a shit ton of random brackets and metal water hoses and the water outlet and even the intake manifold as well as some other random stuff to see if I can get them cleaned up and painted as well. I'll probably just get a gray as well. Though my DP and turbo are a gunmetal and black, so I may do everything in a gunmetal, perhaps the block even. I'm not familiar with the process though, so I'm not sure how broken down and clean these guys need this stuff before they get it. And I really don't know if I should get the block machined first and painted second or vice versa. I image the the machining process tears it up some, especially the cleaning, but can the painters keep all the newly machined surfaces intact and undamaged?

Speaking of block work, the cylinders seem nice and smooth, some grim at the tippy top, but I couldn't even feel a ridge that supposedly is usually there. I didn't do any machining or honing, I just pushed the pistons out. Everything feels pretty smooth and nice.

So next I'm going to try and research some forged parts. I'm reading about stuff like piston slap which doesn't sound too cool, and I'm hoping I can get pistons and rings that will fit in the cylinders I have now without having to get them honed. If I get it honed, I run into an odd dilemma, I read that you need to run the engine hard under both acceleration and engine breaking to get the hatching set even, but with a brand new clutch and fly wheel, engine braking is a no-no, and with everything being new on the engine as well, I don't think hard pulls out of the gate is a good idea. So I'll see what I can find. Any recommendations for some decent forged bottom end stuff that will work to about 350-400? Just looking for a good solid OEM replacement that's reliable and works well and doesn't need to hold to 700hp.

I also pulled out my WTA inter cooler, I'm going to see if I can get the pits and scratches on the paint on top sanded out and the thing repainted.

About all I can think of for now.

And I thought it was funny that this would be considered scrap in Australia, I thought she's in pretty good condition compared to whats around! :twisted:

Sludge in the coolant hardline coming from the block
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Not a clue what this is, but thought it was cool looking
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I left a place for the crank, then realized how heavy it was and that wasn't going on my roof
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Crankshaft's new motel for the time being
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Re: '91 All Trac Project "Mia" -Valvetrain woes

Postby Fox 21 Alpha » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:17 am

So I got the engine stripped down, and took it down to a local machine shop. Appears the one cam is completely shot, and the other is close. The one main bearing (#5 maybe?) was within miles of failing, it had shrunk and was getting cut up bad. And the exhaust valves aren't salvageable, and the intakes are but not great.

The shop recommends I get new cams, valve springs, retainers, locks, seals, and valves. They can source aftermarket stock sizes for about $15 a piece, or the ferras for $20/$30 a piece for the 6000/comp if I remember right.

I've spent about 3 hours trying to figure what all to get, and where from, and seems my options are

Supertech valves, and they also make a spring and retainer kit, as well as seals, from realstreetperformance.com

BrianCrower valves and springs or retainers, which I can get direct from their website

Or the Ferra mess, with some ungodly combo of valves and retainers and maybe seals, and I'll be damned if I can find a place that has good prices on all three and sells them.

The supertechs are supposedly too short, making shimming a pain and some people also question their coating reliability. I've read mixed reviews on the BCs, and I'd like to get the Ferra Comps but I just can't seem to find a place that has everything I need in one place or a decent price. I'd like to keep the valves stock size, as I'm worried about losing the low to midrange power if I oversize them, and I'm trying to keep my powerband a little lower to keep it fun to drive in the city.

So my main problem right now is sourcing the valvetrain set up. I'm gonna get some HKS cams and adjustable wheels, though I'm not sure what duration to get.

The block and head itself appear to be fine, though they are grinding down the driveshaft 1mm and getting main bearings to go with it. Other then that I got the gas tank out and sent off to a shop to get "renu"ed, and I started taking apart the rear subframe, and somehow broke a huge bolt (see pics below). So I'll have to deal with that soon.

I also has to cut the top left nut off of the steering rack clamps, as the bolt began to spin, and there appears to be no way to access it. I'm either going to have see if it can be drilled and tapped and made into a bolt hole, or if that's not possible, get someone to cut into the unibody to access the rear of the bolt, pull it out, have a new bolt welded in place, and get that part of the unibody welded back up. So FML, typically all trac haha.

Anyone have any recommendation for the valvetrain set up and where to get it, or the cam durations?

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Does anyone know what the hell this thing is?
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One of these days I'll get a better camera I swear...
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Re: '91 All Trac Project "Mia"-Engine Rebuild Time

Postby Street_Chally73 » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:12 am

Wow, is that thing crusty!! It's great to see you're taking the time & whole learning process to rebuild this All-Trac!!! It's funny how the snowball effect comes into play with your fun car, isn't it? Mine (the Stealth TT in my avatar photo) originally went down for a clutch assembly replacement (had a broken clutch spring perch/tab), but managed to morph into a complete transmission overhaul, front suspension/steering rebuild, & just about every other clean-up job I could do during my available time away from work/school.

Keep up the progress & eventually it'll be a great, dependable car!! (Most likely because damn near everything will have been replaced by then. lol :twisted: )
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1990 Toyota Celica

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