3SGE (3S-GE?) swap into an SV25!

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3SGE (3S-GE?) swap into an SV25!

Postby New Guy » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:40 pm

I have a 3SGE (Is it 3S-GE or 3SGE?!) sitting in my trailer, waiting for an engine stand to go on so I can do a quickie rebuild and cram it into my Camry All-Trac. I've spent most of the last couple of weeks researching the swap and it looks like in all honesty it isn't too bad if you reuse the stock transmission. The only part I'm having a hard time with is finding a wiring diagram for an '88 SV25 with a manual trans. The Gen 1 3SGE diagrams are easy as cake to find... Have a ton of them saved on my brother's computer.

Anywho. I hope to remember to take lots of pictures/etc. so I can keep everyone here and on TN up-to-date on the progress and maybe I'll even explain how to do the wiring if I'm feeling really generous.

Speaking of, we're going back to Abq next weekend maybe. Other than the engine, engine harness, and engine computer, what little bits are needed to finish a 3SGE swap?
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Re: 3SGE (3S-GE?) swap into an SV25!

Postby UtahSleeper » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:50 pm

I have no real idea what would be needed. I would imagine you could use the 3S-FE ECU since the main difference is the cams and TVIS, but I don't know for sure since the disributor may be different.

There are a few here that have done the swap with a 3S-GTE and that swap is close to yours, minus the turbo. All of the electronics are the same from what I have read.
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Re: 3SGE (3S-GE?) swap into an SV25!

Postby New Guy » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:28 pm

That is what I have heard- phattyduck here on alltrac.net is sort of my hero for Gen 2 Camry stuff. He's pulled my ass out of the fire more than once on TN. I grabbed the 3SGE ECU so I can get rid of that pesky rev limiter and also because I wasn't sure if the T-VIS was actuated by the ECU or a separate controller... I hope it's something attached to the intake or otherwise I'm going to have to miss another day of work.

I'm really more concerned about how to wire it in to the stock dash wiring or if I even need to. I don't know if it's possible to build a stand-alone harness for these.

The distributor has a separate ignitor/coil assembly, so I don't think the stock ECU can be reused anyway. With the stuff I'm used to (Suzuki) different heads can typically run on the same wiring so long as the intakes are interchangeable- I'm fairly certain that not all of the engine management equipment is attached to the intake with Toyotas.

I'll have to go over to TN and pm phattyduck to see if he's got any tips for wiring it in. The advantage to doing this swap now as I see it is that it'll make my future Gen 3 3SGTE swap that much easier if for no reason other than I'll have a 'Yota engine swap under my belt.

Edit: If anyone's got the pinouts for a gen 1 3SGE ecu and is willing to share, that'd be a huge help. None of the pinouts I've found are for a gen 1... Not to mention my brother took the liberty of not saving any of those pictures. :bangshead:
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Re: 3SGE (3S-GE?) swap into an SV25!

Postby phattyduck » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:53 pm

Open up the ECU - the pin names may be labeled inside.

TVIS is actuated by the ECU, and as long as you got all the solenoids, etc. with the motor, you will be fine there.

Dash wiring is minimal - things like the tach signal, check engine light wire, speedo signal, etc. The Celica runs some dash/chassis wiring a bit differently, but you should be ok. Hopefully you have all of the ECU connectors...

-Charlie
'89 Camry LE Alltrac 3S-GTE - SV25/ST205 hybrid
'99 4Runner SR5 4WD 5VZ-FE
Previous: '88 Camry LE Alltrac 3S-GE BEAMS, '90 Camry 3S-GTE, '90 Camry DX
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Re: 3SGE (3S-GE?) swap into an SV25!

Postby New Guy » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:57 pm

I do have all of the ECU connectors- and there was a little box stuck to the side of the ECU labeled "Toyota Control" or something like that... But it was attached to the engine harness so I also grabbed that. I sort of figured it would devolve into just running 12v where needed and when needed and then hooking things like tach signal and the like into the Celica engine harness. I decided I was stressing over that which I didn't need to stress and looking inside the ECU for pinouts is a damned good idea.

I'm '88 All-Trac on TN, just in case I had you confused, Charlie. :notworthy: :D

I'll have to see about getting the engine harness separated from the engine and prepped for the swap- It'll likely be a number of months before I install this engine as I need to source quality rings/bearings for a quickie rebuild but they all seem to cost a fortune.
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Re: 3SGE (3S-GE?) swap into an SV25!

Postby alltraccamry » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:52 am

Its awesome to know that somebody else besides me and Charlie has a all trac Camry. I am doing a 3sgte swap in my 89 Camry All trac. My locking center diff don't work and I cant find the vsv actuators anywhere so I am going with the Celica all trac trans because they have a viscous coupler and lock automaticily if there is any speed differences. I think I have to change the rear diff too. I am also worried about the wiring. I have emailed Charlie a number of times and he has answered alot of my questions, he is very knowledgeable.

Let me know how things go. Also I have a 89 automatic Camry All Trac that is a parts car if you need any parts. The car only has 125k. Engine is blown and the previous owner took the interior apart and jacked up the car buy the floor pan so I am just using it as parts because it would cost to much to fix.

Paul
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Re: 3SGE (3S-GE?) swap into an SV25!

Postby New Guy » Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:19 pm

Rear CV shafts would be great... I have 240k on the original units. Charlie was supposed to check his out for me but never got back to me. :P No biggie, though, as mine don't click and work just fine.

Other than that... What kinda shape is the dash in? And what color is it? Mine is cracked all to hell.

Update: I did a ton of research. It's not going to be bad to wire this in. For whatever reason, the 3SGE engine harness didn't tie into the dash harness at all... So wiring should be fairly easy. Celicatech had an ECU pinout I could download, and I sourced a basic rebuild kit for a whopping $440 after shipping. Seeing as this engine only needs to last a few years, that should be perfect.

Was talking to an Aussie Camry owner with an ADM 3SGE, and he said getting on the gas hard in any gear will cause it to torque steer into the right lane... So I'm a bit jazzed about this. I know my ECU is less aggressive and whatnot, but it'll be nice to turn 8k with a transmission that practically demands it.
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Re: 3SGE (3S-GE?) swap into an SV25!

Postby alltraccamry » Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:52 pm

New Guy wrote:Rear CV shafts would be great... I have 240k on the original units. Charlie was supposed to check his out for me but never got back to me. :P No biggie, though, as mine don't click and work just fine.

Other than that... What kinda shape is the dash in? And what color is it? Mine is cracked all to hell.

Update: I did a ton of research. It's not going to be bad to wire this in. For whatever reason, the 3SGE engine harness didn't tie into the dash harness at all... So wiring should be fairly easy. Celicatech had an ECU pinout I could download, and I sourced a basic rebuild kit for a whopping $440 after shipping. Seeing as this engine only needs to last a few years, that should be perfect.

Was talking to an Aussie Camry owner with an ADM 3SGE, and he said getting on the gas hard in any gear will cause it to torque steer into the right lane... So I'm a bit jazzed about this. I know my ECU is less aggressive and whatnot, but it'll be nice to turn 8k with a transmission that practically demands it.


It is blue and in ok shape here are some pics. These are old pics. I have two identical cars, my dd is a 5 speed all trac and the parts car is a automatic with only 125k.

Image

Image
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Re: 3SGE (3S-GE?) swap into an SV25!

Postby phattyduck » Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:27 pm

New Guy wrote:Rear CV shafts would be great... I have 240k on the original units. Charlie was supposed to check his out for me but never got back to me. :P No biggie, though, as mine don't click and work just fine.

Whoops! Do I still owe you pictures of them? :doh:

-Charlie
'89 Camry LE Alltrac 3S-GTE - SV25/ST205 hybrid
'99 4Runner SR5 4WD 5VZ-FE
Previous: '88 Camry LE Alltrac 3S-GE BEAMS, '90 Camry 3S-GTE, '90 Camry DX
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Re: 3SGE (3S-GE?) swap into an SV25!

Postby alltraccamry » Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:37 pm

phattyduck wrote:
New Guy wrote:Rear CV shafts would be great... I have 240k on the original units. Charlie was supposed to check his out for me but never got back to me. :P No biggie, though, as mine don't click and work just fine.

Whoops! Do I still owe you pictures of them? :doh:

-Charlie



Hey Charlie, can you send me the wiring for this or how you wired it in. Please?
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Re: 3SGE (3S-GE?) swap into an SV25!

Postby phattyduck » Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:43 pm

alltraccamry wrote:Hey Charlie, can you send me the wiring for this or how you wired it in. Please?
I have a '90 Camry wiring diagram in PDF form I can email to you... (PM me your email address) and there are plenty of places online to get the pinout for whatever specific motor you are putting in. Other than that, its just taking tons of notes, pictures, etc. and matching things up.... (keep everything specific to your car in place, take out all the engine specific stuff, take out all the Celica specific stuff from the engine harness and keep all the 3s-gte specific stuff)

Its daunting at the beginning but there are very few 'gotchas' along the way...

-Charlie
'89 Camry LE Alltrac 3S-GTE - SV25/ST205 hybrid
'99 4Runner SR5 4WD 5VZ-FE
Previous: '88 Camry LE Alltrac 3S-GE BEAMS, '90 Camry 3S-GTE, '90 Camry DX
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Re: 3SGE (3S-GE?) swap into an SV25!

Postby New Guy » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:06 pm

phattyduck wrote:
New Guy wrote:Rear CV shafts would be great... I have 240k on the original units. Charlie was supposed to check his out for me but never got back to me. :P No biggie, though, as mine don't click and work just fine.

Whoops! Do I still owe you pictures of them? :doh:

-Charlie


Yep! :P And if you could email me that pdf of the wiring diagram, that would be wonderful... I'm on my phone so that pm may take a bit.
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Re: 3SGE (3S-GE?) swap into an SV25!

Postby phattyduck » Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:41 pm

New Guy wrote:Yep! :P And if you could email me that pdf of the wiring diagram, that would be wonderful... I'm on my phone so that pm may take a bit.
Wiring diagram email sent... I'll be out in the garage tonight working on the Alltrac, so I'll try to snap some pictures of the axles. :)

-Charlie
'89 Camry LE Alltrac 3S-GTE - SV25/ST205 hybrid
'99 4Runner SR5 4WD 5VZ-FE
Previous: '88 Camry LE Alltrac 3S-GE BEAMS, '90 Camry 3S-GTE, '90 Camry DX
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Re: 3SGE (3S-GE?) swap into an SV25!

Postby New Guy » Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:23 pm

Awesome, thanks! I got the email. That'll help out a ton when it comes time to wire the 3SGE in.
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Re: 3SGE (3S-GE?) swap into an SV25!

Postby New Guy » Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:22 pm

Biiiiiig update to come sometime this week. Ended up not going for a 3S-GE, I swapped in a 5S. Similar power and significantly better torque.

Then there was an accident that resulted in an ES250 nose conversion... And now goals for the car have shifted. Once I've got money it's going to get a Redtop head on a 98+ 5S paired with a bit of boost, all controlled by a standalone I haven't decided on yet... Still trying to figure out a decent way to run a wastegate so I can top out the engine despite the turbo.
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