St215 motor + st205 gearbox into St165 JDM build

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Re: St215 motor + st205 gearbox into St165 JDM build

Postby bmt » Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:40 am

Not yet, picking up car tomorrow and fitting waste gate over the weekend back to dyno on tuesday then a track day on wednesday. Pretty stoked and a little bit scared... Good scared though!!
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Re: St215 motor + st205 gearbox into St165 JDM build

Postby bmt » Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:47 am

Dont know where the 320hp figure came from as I got the info 3rd hand sorry. I think it was a spike on a unrecorded 25psi spike, BUT I did get the dyno sheet from the run up with the internal wastegate at 22psi and it is more like 300hp. I apologise for the mislead. I was getting a lot of boost creep and it was pushing up to 22-25 psi. When I was doing the calcs when I chose my turbo I was aiming for 19psi.

So I spent the 3 days of the weekend,(Labour day holiday here in NZ), fitting my new turbosmart external wastegate. 45mm with a 14 lb spring in it. Then back to the dyno for a half day retune. End result?

19psi equalled a safe 290hp atwhp. Which according to DeeCees calcs of 23% losses means at the crank 376hp!

Things of note were;

Internal wastegates suck. You would think that they would have it sorted to remove as much as it can but I guess not.

When I had boost creep the dyno chart that showed turbo pressure vs revs revealed it stayed below 9 psi all the way to 5000rpm then it spiked up to 22psi at 6800rpm. Once external wastegate was fitted and the internal one locked off, same graph had it spooling up past 9psi at 3700rpm and by 4500rpm it was 17psi. Peaking at 19psi around 6375rpm. SO much better to drive. Almost feels linear.

Peak Torque with boost creep was 230lbft at 6626rpm, after fitting external wastegate Peak torque was 264lbft at 5093rpm

Peak hp with boost creep was 300hp at 6759rpm after fitting external wastegate was 290hp at 6466rpm. It started dropping after the revs went above that.

That's the figures take from them what you will...

I then literally drove straight to the track and gave it a damn fine thrashing. LOVED IT. Only my brakes let me down but that is soon to be rectified!!

Cheers!
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Re: St215 motor + st205 gearbox into St165 JDM build

Postby DeeCee » Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:12 pm

Glad the run went well. 290hp atw is still very good performance :)
People will want some more pics soon
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Re: St215 motor + st205 gearbox into St165 JDM build

Postby bmt » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:33 am

Thanks! I will see what I can do about the pictures. Engine bay shots I suppose? Externally the car looks pretty ratty but hey maybe that's what "People" want.

I've started down the 205 brake install. Pulled out the pistons on the calipers to check them out. Rears were sweet, fronts were buggered. Ordered some new pistons and seals and some new seals for the rear. Obviously the rears are bolt on so all good but I will have to do some head scratching for the fronts. I will try to keep the updates coming!
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Re: St215 motor + st205 gearbox into St165 JDM build

Postby DeeCee » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:59 pm

st205 calipers on st165/st185 hub carriers and hubs - been down that road and personally decided that it wasn't achievable without the use of a 2 piece rotor or some sort of modification to the hub carrier. Depends on how much you want to muck about with it. I consider a rotor a consumable, and I set a restriction that a consumable should not be modified in any way to fit, hence why a rotor hat needs to be made to get the correct rotor offset and centre bore.

I'm sure you'll figure it anyway 8)
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Re: St215 motor + st205 gearbox into St165 JDM build

Postby bmt » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:52 am

Yeah If I really get stuck then that's the route I'll go. If I can figure a solution I will plan to make a kit in the future if it is cost effective. I know everyone will want everything perfect and for nothing :wink: :wink: :lol: !
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Re: St215 motor + st205 gearbox into St165 JDM build

Postby CTechBlueDragon » Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:50 am

Take 10mm off the diameter of the rotor and put a 4mm spacer behind it.
Everyone makes this some huge ordeal when its pretty simple. edit oh and 1mm off the ears of the caliper to center them.
With as little miles as most peoples alltracs get doing one set of 205 rotors will last the life of the car IMO.
In fact I use mine so little and not on a track that I am re-considering putting them on myself.
Might as well complete the 205 conversion tho, plus they look so sweeeeeeet! lol
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Re: St215 motor + st205 gearbox into St165 JDM build

Postby athousandleaves » Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:14 pm

CTechBlueDragon wrote:Take 10mm off the diameter of the rotor and put a 4mm spacer behind it.
Everyone makes this some huge ordeal when its pretty simple. edit oh and 1mm off the ears of the caliper to center them.
With as little miles as most peoples alltracs get doing one set of 205 rotors will last the life of the car IMO.
In fact I use mine so little and not on a track that I am re-considering putting them on myself.
Might as well complete the 205 conversion tho, plus they look so sweeeeeeet! lol


I can't recommend anyone do the install of 205 brakes that way ever.
If you get into actually looking at the 185 hub assembly you'll see why.
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Re: St215 motor + st205 gearbox into St165 JDM build

Postby CTechBlueDragon » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:02 am

I am fairly familiar what is the problem?
If everyone runs spacers whats the big deal about putting one and a tiny one at that behind the rotor?

I appreciate your opinion either way I just don't see why everyone makes a big stink about this method.
Kind of reminds me of the local track that does not allow ANY wheel spacers because they are assumed to be unsafe because one guy somewhere once upon a time put on spacers and didn't extend the studs or some dumb shit and so now everyone over reacts and ruins everything for everyone.

Kind of like those intersections that were fine for 50 plus years then one idiot gets hit turning when they should not and for the rest of your life you have to sit through 3 light cycles because you are assumed to be too stupid to navigate a turn at that intersection without a light because of one unfortunate event.
Infact someone should start a petition to make this mod illegal! (just kidding I am sure it already is, seriously)
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Re: St215 motor + st205 gearbox into St165 JDM build

Postby bmt » Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:47 pm

Fine with the behind the disc spacer. Why do you turn the disc down? Just to fit under the rim?
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Re: St215 motor + st205 gearbox into St165 JDM build

Postby DeeCee » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:44 pm

CTechBlueDragon - in New Zealand, we are only allowed to run 1x spacer and using a spacer on the inside would restrict wheel options/offset if so desired. While it is not a issue when using longer studs, it is all dependent on what lengths the person who is modifying will go to install said components.

For me, I considered the available options and methods, considered my vehicle certification requirements in New Zealand and subsequently have decided that for my application, mounting the st205 calipers was not a cost effective method to get good braking. Considering that a set of st205 calipers cost approx $450NZ on the second hand market and not readily available, while a brand new pair of wilwood superlites cost $550NZ.

It really is dependent on circumstance and applicable laws around modification. If my car was strictly for motorsport, then there is more room for modification, but at the end of the day, I build to the letter of the local regulations.

Bruce - when a st205 caliper is mounted to the st165/185 hub, the allowable outer circumference of the rotor is 295mm (305mm minus 10mm). This circumference is not definitive with the rotor circumference ranging from 295mm to 300mm. UK peeps sometimes use a 294x25mm wrx rotor using a 6mm brake pad spacer to offset the rotor thickness differences between st205 and wrx rotors (can't remember if they used a spacer behind the disc).

Alternatively, some have used Altezza RS200/Supra 300mm discs redrilled to 5x100 and taken 2-3mm off the hub mounting points to change the offset of the caliper to the Altezza rotor.

And with all this work, a bell and rotor setup has been made as well as a dog bone adapter.

All to get that little Celica logo on the brakes... ;)
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Re: St215 motor + st205 gearbox into St165 JDM build

Postby bmt » Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:12 am

Thanks Dave.

I will keep everyone informed with whatever I do!
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Re: St215 motor + st205 gearbox into St165 JDM build

Postby CTechBlueDragon » Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:50 pm

I see what you are saying Dee. I just do not like the idea of me being restricted from doing something because there is a chance (and there always is ) some other person does not get longer studs. That is HIS problem, originally here in America and most "republic" forms of government everything was based on individual responsibility, and is now morphed into the big brother nanny state and I will stand against it till the day I die. Those who relinquish liberty for security deserve neither and lose both.

I was not searching for a big brake upgrade or your argument would apply more to me. I bought a 205 drivetrain with the whole shebang, so a car with 205 everything else will just be so much more perfect with the brakes also, and yes I LOVE the Celica logo, they really went all out on their last Celica GT4. Too bad the cheap asses that bought eclipses instead of alltracs ruined that for us over here!
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Re: St215 motor + st205 gearbox into St165 JDM build

Postby bmt » Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:34 am

Jeez time flies I cant believe it's been another YEAR since a post. Apologies to those that have subscribed.

I ended up putting Brembos from an evo on the front with Wrxsti discs and running 205 rear set up on the back. I had an issue with a long pedal so went with a 1 inch master cylinder from a v6 camry. Of course the booster had the wrong bolt pattern to match up. 3 bolt versus 2 bolt so got the booster from St202 and everything bolted in smoothly. I upgraded all the pads to Mintex 1166. New high temp brake fluid. I had an issue with pad knock I believe from hub flex. (It's got New wheel bearings all round). Goodish pedal when going straight on repeated stops but go around a corner and the pedal would be looong on first push and come better as you pushed. I put in a residual pressure valve if the front circuit and that helped. But I'm still not happy. Now getting a brand new master cylinder as the previous one was in unknown condition. It would be ok on static tests but crap on the track. Sometimes it would work good other times crap! NOT what you want on the track. It is a process of elimination I will upgrade the fluid to an even higher spec in case it is the problem but it has issues when it's relatively cold. :shrug:

On the plus side the car is all wired up and has gone to the painters to hopefully look like the money I have spent on it!!

I got them to pull all the windows and glad I did cause there was heaps of dirt under the garnishes but unbelievably NO rust. Finally a win!!

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Top of windscreen

I promise more photos and updates soon, well at least it wont be a year!!
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Re: St215 motor + st205 gearbox into St165 JDM build

Postby DeeCee » Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:13 pm

Which WRX discs did you end up using Bruce?
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