1993 Alltrac conversion

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Re: 1993 Alltrac conversion

Postby TakumiRolla » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:08 am

Oh.
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Last edited by TakumiRolla on Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1993 Alltrac conversion

Postby TakumiRolla » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:23 am

We are prepared to spend a lot of time on this. I am 14 and summer is coming up so I will have a lot of time on my hands.

There is already a channel for the driveshaft, etc. in the back. Does anybody have pictures of the back of the Alltrac vs. the Celica? I cant seem to find any on Google images. :I

From what I can tell, you all are just saying that its time consuming, not impossible.
I don't want to keep being told that its hard. I knew that. Does anyone have a list of parts. If anybody here has done it, can you give me a list of stuff that you worked with?
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Re: 1993 Alltrac conversion

Postby CMS-GT4 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:51 am

I think people are trying to not necessarily warn you that its hard but that if you don't have the skills you will ruin your car and possibly make it very unsafe for yourself as well as cost vs completion. Just time vs cost buying an alltrac makes more sense. A lot of people want to do this sort of thing, but don't have the mechanical knowledge to really make it happen.
The big thing you need is the drive shaft, mounts, whole rear end and rear floor pan. You can buy a 205 floor pan new from a dealer. I think they were about $400 or so last time I looked. I am sure there is more, but you will likely not discover these things until you are deep into the project.
To me, I think to go through all this trouble I would not had even bothered with awd. I would had done a rwd conversion and possible a larger engine.

EDIT: You also need a gas tank, or you got to go with a fuel cell.
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Re: 1993 Alltrac conversion

Postby Spectra1 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:11 am

There is already a channel for the driveshaft, etc. in the back

That channel is for the exhaust and would not fit the drive shaft without modification. As was already mentioned you will need to remove the whole rear floor pan and replace it with one from an alltrac, im sure you could fab something up but not sure how safe it would be. Keep in mind the gas tanks are mounted in completely different locations so you would need a fuel cell or a alltrac gas tank (in addition to the alltrac rear floor pan).

Does anybody have pictures of the back of the Alltrac vs. the Celica? I cant seem to find any on Google images.


The problem with our cars is they are pretty rare so even simple things like pics of the back are often hard to come by. Lucky for you most of us on this forum are willing to snap a few pics of our cars when asked to do so.

Im all for people trying new things and your project sounds interesting but when you say things like " could someone just give me a list of what is needed to do blank" it sounds like you dont really know what your getting yourself into. I dont say that to be offensive so I hope you dont take it the wrong way, its just that most of us on here have see this kind of request a million times and very little ever comes out of it...which should tell you how incredibly hard but more importantly expensive it would be to do this kind of thing not to mention the safety issue. I would hate to have you tear into your car, get half way through and run out of money, time, patience, or interest. What your proposing can be done, and has been done......but only a few times which again should tell you something especially considering how often this has been considered by very capable individuals.

If your dead set on doing it make sure you do your own research first then ask questions. For example I would start with picking up Toyota factory manuals and electrical manuals for both the alltrac and the model you currently have (check ebay). Next I would study the diagrams to note as many differences as possible, just form that it should become clear what parts you need. The reason that people have a hard time answering that question is we really dont know what is needed, we can guess but that is about it. Your next issue will be sourcing those parts, so either find a wrecked alltrac (not so easy to do now days) or look into the jdm market for half cuts or rear cuts. Next make sure you have the nessesary tools that go beyond a basic garage, im thinking probably a lift and a welding rig would be needed. Lastly remember its not that we are saying its hard (thats a given) so much as it will become extremely expensive if you have to be subing out a ton of fabrication work, if you can do it yourself then not a problem but realize we are not talking about your basic welding skills.

If I were you I would start with doing a 3sgte engine swap first, cut your teeth on that and then reevaluate if you still want to continue. Some times it makes it easier to do these kind of builds in stages so instead of doing the engine swap and drive train conversion all at once you could break it up. Trust me when I say it helps with motivation if you can get one thing done and enjoy it first before you rip into the next project (coming from the person who has been in a propetual state of project building for the last 4 years and has yet to drive the car). People on this forum can be great help if they think that your serious but if it looks like someone is not willing to put in the time to do their own research they can tend to be kinda negative ( not nearly as bad as most forums though). You will also notice that people on here often tend to just tell people to "just buy an alltrac, its cheaper". This actually really annoys me because who said you want an alltrac, at lease in your situation you just want an allwheel drive trubo'ed convertible. As for your request for pics of the rear end let me know exactly what you want and ill see what I can do as I have a stock gts (5sfe engine), 91 swapped gts (3sgte engine) and a 90 Alltrac.

Good luck, I think it could be a cool project if your able to pull it off.
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Re: 1993 Alltrac conversion

Postby athousandleaves » Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:37 am

I really hate to sound like a jerk but this:
TakumiRolla wrote:I am 14 and summer is coming up so I will have a lot of time on my hands.
makes me think we're wasting our time with some kid's pipe dream.

No its not impossible and likely nobody will give you a list of parts to go out and buy because nobody has had the budget or sanity to do it PROPERLY.

You want to do it 'right'?
Buy all the alltrac floorpans, body members and bracing -firewall to trunk- from Toyota (if they still sell them) for about $4000-$5000 or build your own from scratch, next you'll have to buy an alltrac engine/drivetrain from an importer, then you'll need to worry about suspension, gas, exhaust, intercooling, alltrac hood, prop shaft & mounts, supplies... need I go on?

If you seriously must do this project I would recommend you set aside $10000-15000 minimum and a LOT of time, much more than just one summer.
/rant off/ :evil:

If your car is clean and you like it PLEASE don't hack it to bits over the idea that turning it into another car entirely would be cool.

Sorry about the heavy dose of reality but it's better to get it now rather than once you've stripped your car to nothing and your bank account is empty.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, to dispel some myths for people in the future that consider this type of swap; while the celica family of cars share many similar parts the bodys are NOT SIMILAR and were all purposely designed as such. I have a copy of the "Celica Chassis and Body Repair Manual" and the alltrac is entirely different and more robust than any other model produced. The driveshaft/exhaust tunnel you may think you see on other celicas floorpan is in fact there for Toyota's 4WS and hydraulic lines for the Active Suspension systems that were available overseas, nothing else.

I'd like to recommend that we get a new subforum where people can post up specifics for alltrac conversions or mods should just delete these threads.
Can we move this one to Other All Tracs or Off Topic for now?
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Re: 1993 Alltrac conversion

Postby TakumiRolla » Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:25 am

So more like 10 - 15. :twisted:

No way that's happening, we wanted to do this right in the first place. The car is clean and I wish I could give you pics but for some reason the site doesn't want to let me upload the ones I took.

Apparently my dad and I were both fooled. We though that huge bump right behind the center console was for a driveshaft. I never thought it to be an exhaust channel.

I have the shop repair manuals with all the electrical stuff along with it.

Oh well then. To spend $23,000 on a converted Celica, you would have to be higher than snoop dog and they don't grow weed around where I live so...

Could we possibly add a turbo to the 5S-FE. We were planning on rebuilding it anyway.

Thanks for all the advice.
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Re: 1993 Alltrac conversion

Postby New Guy » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:01 pm

TakumiRolla wrote:
Could we possibly add a turbo to the 5S-FE. We were planning on rebuilding it anyway.

Thanks for all the advice.


Yup. 5S-FTE is quite common- CelicaTech would be better for reading about that, though. Done right, you can even do it fairly cheaply. A 3S-GTE swap is also well within your stated budget if you decide to go that route.

I'm a welder by trade and own a twin set of S-platform vehicles (SV21 and SV25) and can tell you the rear floor plans are quite different. The passenger footwell has a bulge to clear the transfer case, and the driveshaft tunnel is broader to clear the driveshaft in addition to the exhaust and hydraulic lines.
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Re: 1993 Alltrac conversion

Postby toayoztan » Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:02 pm

If you still want an awd turbo vechicle (aka alltrac or "converted alltrac), it should be possible still.

If you sold your car for half of what you put into it (as you know, you never get what you put into it), and add the 7k budget, you're working with 10k.

That's plenty to find a decent alltrac with some extra cash for bolt ons and suspension work. You'll still have fun and you have the proper platform for awd.

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Re: 1993 Alltrac conversion

Postby WarTowels » Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:24 pm

Make an All-trac a convertible! lol.

Pretty sure no one has done that one.

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Re: 1993 Alltrac conversion

Postby underscore » Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:44 pm

TakumiRolla wrote:Could we possibly add a turbo to the 5S-FE. We were planning on rebuilding it anyway.

Thanks for all the advice.


You'd be better off to swap in a 3SGTE than to make a 5SFE+T.
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Re: 1993 Alltrac conversion

Postby CMS-GT4 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:28 pm

You could always learn something from this build. 3sgte swap.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aobland/498303389/
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Re: 1993 Alltrac conversion

Postby GMan » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:05 pm

WarTowels wrote:Make an All-trac a convertible! lol.
Pretty sure no one has done that one.
-Towels

I have pics to Prove there was at Least One convertible AWD swap.
It is possible to mount the rear subframe to the fwd platform.
(Not the best or safest, but good enough for daily driving)
Picture 1674.jpg
rear awd converted convert.


Look on http://www.6gc.net for several methods to pull off the awd & 3sgte swap.
The 6th gen is not identical, but it give you an idea of what is required.

My favorite swap :evil:
See what is required to build up a TWIN TURBO V6 AWD CELICA BUILD (C.M.S )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixdJFXJcl3E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9W0xvFlWVQ

Any AWD swap is not easy or cheap but possible.
Many have tried and failed; but a few Have succeeded with their swap dreams.
Budget ? Have Plenty of cash for any unexpected expenses. They WILL happen :doh:

Pleasant regards;
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Re: 1993 Alltrac conversion

Postby l0ch0w » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:59 pm

When doing a halftrac build if you use an E153 tranny out of an MR2 you can get factory LSD. The LSD transmissions themselves are a bit spendy though. Usually $800+
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Postby WarTowels » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:48 am

GMan wrote:
WarTowels wrote:Make an All-trac a convertible! lol.
Pretty sure no one has done that one.
-Towels

I have pics to Prove there was at Least One convertible AWD swap.
It is possible to mount the rear subframe to the fwd platform.


You misunderstood me, my suggestion is to make an All-trac a convertible- in other words start with an All-trac and turn it into a convertible.

It was just a joke,

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Re: 1993 Alltrac conversion

Postby warracer » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:26 am

In my honest opinion, if I we're you I would just drive the car as is, hell your 14 years old. I would drive it daily, from home to school. Make improvement to the yet very capable FF platform 5S-FTE (slap a turbo on) or just swap 3SGTE when you are ready, but before that remember that the car was built for the 2.2L N/A engine, which means you need to add rigidity to the chassis, im pretty sure does kinds of mods would improve by ALOT the all around feeling of the car, strut bar, underbrace, suspension, bushing easy stuff to learn and improve your mechanical skills and knowledge...
I would just look at this awesome FF project viewtopic.php?f=44&t=43415&hilit=fwd

That shows clearly that you can have PLENTY of fun with a FF ST182...
Sharpen your driving skills,and if you still love the GT-Four (Alltrac) when you grow up, why not get one, if you have a summer job at around 16-17 you could easily save up to buy one, thats what I did personally
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