Warracer's mild street project.

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Re: Warracer's mild street project.

Postby CMS-GT4 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:47 pm

What did they run in the rear? Also note its not like they threw some springs on a stock setup. The spindles and connectors barely resemble a stock setup and their shocks likely cost more than our cars resell for now.
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92 st185 (205 swap) | 03 350Z Track (sold) | 13 Pilot | 17 Mazda3
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Re: Warracer's mild street project.

Postby underscore » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:17 pm

With all the gutting and caging the chassis is going to be fairly different as well, not to mention that just because a stage is tarmac that doesn't mean the car is only touching tarmac :wink:
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Re: Warracer's mild street project.

Postby MWP » Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:42 am

CMS-GT4 wrote:What did they run in the rear? Also note its not like they threw some springs on a stock setup. The spindles and connectors barely resemble a stock setup and their shocks likely cost more than our cars resell for now.


They ran 7.64kg/in in the rear.
The 185's you see in this video, are running these exact spring rates: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9uvO84RnWI

Actually this is pre super expensive dampers (they starting moving that way with the 205's)
Ok, they were still expensive, but this was before they moved to using soft springs, and having the dampers do all the work.

The strut design doesn't really matter... its still mcpherson strut, so the same spring multipliers, etc still apply.
Their struts were mainly modified for strength.
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Re: Warracer's mild street project.

Postby warracer » Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:07 am

MWP wrote:
Domspun wrote:
sMARTINside wrote:Nice updates! I think that your spring rate numbers are not realistic tough. Let's say a common spring rate of 400 lbs/in is around 7 kg/mm... 120 or 140 would be like running no suspension at all! :lol:


I am pretty sure it's a typo! Should 14.0 and 12.0. I saw of lot of coil-overs in Japan with those spring rates.


It doesn't mean its right ;)
A lot of those numbers come from marketing, or catering to people that want to run with 0 ride height (=destroys handling).

I recently found out the tarmac WRC TTE 185's ran 8.16kg/mm springs at the front, and they were/are the best street handling 185's on the planet.


Well, if you take the overall length of the spring the guy who initially bought those didn't thought about running 1 inch ride height, I have 6.5inches of clearance. But maybe the rate is too high, honestly im still learning with the car, overall it feels great. But I look forward fine tuning the setup.
____________
ST185H A-Spec:
-IHI VF28 -BC Racing coilover
-Yonaka FMIC -Swift Spring
-ARP head stud -St205 rear end
-Cometic Metal HG -Supra TT Fuel Pump
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Re: Warracer's mild street project.

Postby CMS-GT4 » Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:15 pm

Keep in mind that 185 is super strut. I am curious about the spring rates though. I have 7 in the rear already and 10 in the front. I might drop the fronts to 8 and see how that does.

EDIT: I notice people incorrectly converting to lb so it did not match the kg so never mind.
Coldiron
92 st185 (205 swap) | 03 350Z Track (sold) | 13 Pilot | 17 Mazda3
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Re: Warracer's mild street project.

Postby MWP » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:10 am

185's isnt super strut... the 205 is.
The 185 is plain old macpherson strut.
My collection of GT4 documentation: http://gt4.mwp.id.au
Daily: Celica GT4 ST185 (~170kw/atw)
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Re: Warracer's mild street project.

Postby warracer » Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:43 pm

MWP wrote:185's isnt super strut... the 205 is.
The 185 is plain old macpherson strut.


But wasn't the TTE rally st185 super strut and the TTE rally st205 mcpherson? :shrug:
____________
ST185H A-Spec:
-IHI VF28 -BC Racing coilover
-Yonaka FMIC -Swift Spring
-ARP head stud -St205 rear end
-Cometic Metal HG -Supra TT Fuel Pump
-3'' SS straight pipe -Poly bushing
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Re: Warracer's mild street project.

Postby CMS-GT4 » Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:16 pm

Like warracer said, the TTE 185 is SS and 205 Mac.
Last edited by CMS-GT4 on Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Coldiron
92 st185 (205 swap) | 03 350Z Track (sold) | 13 Pilot | 17 Mazda3
www.noritoy.com | noritoy.deviantart.com | http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19891
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Re: Warracer's mild street project.

Postby underscore » Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:18 pm

warracer wrote:
MWP wrote:185's isnt super strut... the 205 is.
The 185 is plain old macpherson strut.


But wasn't the TTE rally st185 super strut and the TTE rally st205 mcpherson? :shrug:


Either way the TTE setup is pretty far off from what we would want on the street.
★ 1991 GTFour RC ~ "Rebel Scum" ★
It's for sale! http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=52181
Build thread http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=44216
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Re: Warracer's mild street project.

Postby warracer » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:55 am

Yeah absolutely right. Ill try to make a video of how it rides, its really not that harsh. Im not lowered much, the coilover has maximum travel, I adjusted the compression/rebound and it just feel sporty,not ''springy''.
____________
ST185H A-Spec:
-IHI VF28 -BC Racing coilover
-Yonaka FMIC -Swift Spring
-ARP head stud -St205 rear end
-Cometic Metal HG -Supra TT Fuel Pump
-3'' SS straight pipe -Poly bushing
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Re: Warracer's mild street project.

Postby MWP » Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:31 am

CMS-GT4 wrote:Like warracer said, the TTE 185 is SS and 205 Mac.


They most definitely are not.

Factory 185 is mac, factory 205 is superstrut.
TTE 185 is mac, TTE 205 is mac.

underscore wrote:Either way the TTE setup is pretty far off from what we would want on the street.


Why? What makes you say that?

Because its too stiff? ... but its softer than you guys run, and is probably more comfortable too.
Because its too low? ... isnt that what most here aim for?
Because it has 100's of hours of development by world class racing drivers & mechanics and handles too well? .... errrrrr.


But anyway... all this is way off topic, this thread is about youre awesome build... back to it.
My collection of GT4 documentation: http://gt4.mwp.id.au
Daily: Celica GT4 ST185 (~170kw/atw)
Project: Toyota RA28 '77 Celica (1UZ-FE powered)
Chairman of the SA Classic Celica Club.
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Re: Warracer's mild street project.

Postby underscore » Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:03 am

Because the TTE setup is for an extensively modified rally car that was then tweaked to work on the street while driven by a rally driver. Their cars are stiffer than ours and the weight balance is going to be different with the supplies they need to carry. They were originally designed for gravel and then changed up to be able to work on tarmac while still retaining some gravel tendencies. And as much as some of us would love to we aren't going to be driving on the street anything like a pro rally driver who is not only used to gravel setups but also pulling big 4 wheel slides and dipping far into the dirt when clipping corners. Even if you matched the TTE build of the car you still don't want their suspension settings because you're not going to be driving it like a rally driver would.
★ 1991 GTFour RC ~ "Rebel Scum" ★
It's for sale! http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=52181
Build thread http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=44216
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Re: Warracer's mild street project.

Postby MWP » Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:08 am

Yeah, i see where you are coming from, but they aren't as different as you may think.
They were lighter, but not by a huge amount.
The chassis were a lot stiffer, but ours are pretty stiff to begin with, and it doesn't affect ideal set up that much.
The roads they rallied on were just public tarmac roads, no different to your everyday roads anywhere else.
Yes, most of us aren't rally drivers, but that doesn't mean the car setup does not apply.

I just think its *very* short sighted to discount tried, tested & world championship winning TTE setup info, and trust Japanese tuning house suspension setups that were most probably created in a excel spreadsheet.
My collection of GT4 documentation: http://gt4.mwp.id.au
Daily: Celica GT4 ST185 (~170kw/atw)
Project: Toyota RA28 '77 Celica (1UZ-FE powered)
Chairman of the SA Classic Celica Club.
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Re: Warracer's mild street project.

Postby warracer » Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:46 pm

MWP wrote:
CMS-GT4 wrote:Like warracer said, the TTE 185 is SS and 205 Mac.


They most definitely are not.

Factory 185 is mac, factory 205 is superstrut.
TTE 185 is mac, TTE 205 is mac.

underscore wrote:Either way the TTE setup is pretty far off from what we would want on the street.


Why? What makes you say that?

Because its too stiff? ... but its softer than you guys run, and is probably more comfortable too.
Because its too low? ... isnt that what most here aim for?
Because it has 100's of hours of development by world class racing drivers & mechanics and handles too well? .... errrrrr.


But anyway... all this is way off topic, this thread is about youre awesome build... back to it.


I know we're off topic but I don't really mind since we're debating on an interesting subject, now was the 185 used by TTE Mac or SS??? Because Ive heard both about he same amount of time on this forum, nobody seems to have definite proof on that. :shrug:
____________
ST185H A-Spec:
-IHI VF28 -BC Racing coilover
-Yonaka FMIC -Swift Spring
-ARP head stud -St205 rear end
-Cometic Metal HG -Supra TT Fuel Pump
-3'' SS straight pipe -Poly bushing
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Re: Warracer's mild street project.

Postby MWP » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:30 am

Ok :)
To clear things up a little.

This is Macpherson Strut...
Its used at the front of factory 165/185, and on the rear of 165/185/205.
Image
(not a diagram of the exact Celica setup, but close enough)

This is Superstrut...
It was only used on the front of the factory 205.
Image

Im 99.999% sure TTE never ran superstrut in 185's.
Every photo & video footage ive seen of TTE 185's shows them having macpherson strut.

TTE converted the front suspensions of its rallying 205's from superstrut to macpherson strut.
Macpherson strut is easier to setup, was well proven, less complicated and more reliable/stronger.
My collection of GT4 documentation: http://gt4.mwp.id.au
Daily: Celica GT4 ST185 (~170kw/atw)
Project: Toyota RA28 '77 Celica (1UZ-FE powered)
Chairman of the SA Classic Celica Club.
MWP
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