turbo V6, AUS Delivered St185, track car

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Re: turbo V6, AUS Delivered St185, track car

Postby MWP » Tue May 05, 2015 1:14 pm

Well said.

fibrewizard wrote:how much extra would 3sgte and awd transmission way more then the 5sfe, I would imagine without weighing, ( which now that I think about it, I might actually do that) an estimated guess would be at least 30-40kg, 3sgte - 3vzfe would be I imagine a 20kg gain,


If you are trying to make the point i think you are...
The difference in the weight between the 5SFE and the 3SGTE was accounted for by the addition of extra weight in the rear of the GT4 (subframe, diff, etc) which evened it out.

fibrewizard wrote:.and if it works out you were right I will shake your hand and apologies...


Apologize? No way. Its your car, do what you like with it :)

however lets be realistic, the gt4 isn't the fastest track car, or we would see so many more of them


I think the main reason we don't is because they are old.
When they were younger and could have made a really good track presence, the internet was young, not as much info was coming out of Japan and aftermarket parts were almost non-existent.
Those that did well with them (mainly rally teams) had big budgets or factory backing.
Same goes with other similar cars of that age (Mitsubishi VR4, and a little bit later, the WRC GC8).

They definitely have potential, they just require more work than later model 4WDs.
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Re: turbo V6, AUS Delivered St185, track car

Postby fibrewizard » Tue May 05, 2015 9:35 pm

he he....

I think we will get along fine during this build I look forward to it,

And the Gt4 is being delivered 2moro, so I should have some pics later this week
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Re: turbo V6, AUS Delivered St185, track car

Postby de_engineered » Wed May 27, 2015 6:53 pm

First and foremost, rock on and godspeed to this project.

Secondly, very cool to see you showing up here, I've actually alluded to some of your posts elsewhere in my own thread here, trying to V6 a Camry All-Trac.

I'm wondering how similar, or not, the Camry vs Celica transmissions are from the outside, aka, if I would have to do a lot of grinding myself. Hmm.

I may have options for sidestepping smog (ie: custom y-pipe, among other things beyond just getting it to fit), but would rather not persue just yet.

Hmmmmm...
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Re: turbo V6, AUS Delivered St185, track car

Postby fibrewizard » Thu May 28, 2015 11:01 pm

de_engineered wrote:First and foremost, rock on and godspeed to this project.

Secondly, very cool to see you showing up here, I've actually alluded to some of your posts elsewhere in my own thread here, trying to V6 a Camry All-Trac.

I'm wondering how similar, or not, the Camry vs Celica transmissions are from the outside, aka, if I would have to do a lot of grinding myself. Hmm.

I may have options for sidestepping smog (ie: custom y-pipe, among other things beyond just getting it to fit), but would rather not persue just yet.

Hmmmmm...


4wd a camry will the headache will be in the rear, and the same issue I have with transfer case on the V6,
unless auto is an option for you, then you can get a rav 4 auto transmission that will bolt on No mods.......

but as for a manual...... mods are needed, I am researching and will be seeing if I can swap rav transfer case onto the camry 5 speed manual, making a v6 awd transmission as apposed to using a 4cylinder transmission........ keep following because I will be answering these questions as I progress in my build..........


I had to custom make y-pipe for the v6 in the FWD celica,

as for the 4wd, the rear bank manifold, contacts the transfer case, so custom manifolds are necessary
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Re: turbo V6, AUS Delivered St185, track car

Postby mk1spyder » Sat May 30, 2015 5:27 pm

I'll give you props for doing something different but a gen3 3sgte is the way to go. I know its boring but F heads suck. The JOGTC supras used 3SGTE engines for a reason.
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Re: turbo V6, AUS Delivered St185, track car

Postby CMS-GT4 » Sat May 30, 2015 6:25 pm

Engine tech has come a long way. There are modern "F" engines capable of good power and better power bands than the 3s and still get better economy. I stick with the 3s just due to things being easier.
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Re: turbo V6, AUS Delivered St185, track car

Postby fibrewizard » Sat May 30, 2015 10:12 pm

CMS-GT4 wrote:Engine tech has come a long way. There are modern "F" engines capable of good power and better power bands than the 3s and still get better economy. I stick with the 3s just due to things being easier.



yes......... but where is the fun in easy?
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Re: turbo V6, AUS Delivered St185, track car

Postby fibrewizard » Sat May 30, 2015 10:26 pm

mk1spyder wrote:I'll give you props for doing something different but a gen3 3sgte is the way to go. I know its boring but F heads suck. The JOGTC supras used 3SGTE engines for a reason.


Thanks......

I have already proved that a 3sgte, is not the only " way to go" my conversion in my 184, came in cheaper then it would have been to do a fwd 3sgte conversion, I have same power and better economy on the v6 which was also a contributing factor in why I chose the 3vzfe....

I know I will get some 3sgte purest, and alltrac purest peoples nose out of joint and I don't intend to offend, as I also like the 3sgte......... BUT it is not the ONLY option........

and I am not in any means just going to do what everyone else would like me to do or what would be logical to do, time to push the envelope further then the normal, and to be honest this swap is relatively easy, nothing massively complicated about it, the difference is that it is in itself Different and out of the norm, and for me that is the appeal of it..... that and I have already done it so can adapt it to work in a different configuration.....
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Re: turbo V6, AUS Delivered St185, track car

Postby de_engineered » Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:03 pm

fibrewizard wrote:but as for a manual...... mods are needed, I am researching and will be seeing if I can swap rav transfer case onto the camry 5 speed manual, making a v6 awd transmission as apposed to using a 4cylinder transmission........ keep following because I will be answering these questions as I progress in my build..........


Here's another guy in Oz who did a 3VZ-FE swap in his RAV4 (or did you mean a more modern V6 2GR-FE RAV4?).

Iirc, the transmissions are the same on the outside, just different grades and gearing across the different Trac models, possibly all 4WD Toyotas of the era.

I had to custom make y-pipe for the v6 in the FWD celica,

as for the 4wd, the rear bank manifold, contacts the transfer case, so custom manifolds are necessary


Do you think cutting the heat shielding and maybe kinking the pipe would do it? I'm less concenred about performance, more just for the sake of passing visual inspection. I can throw on some custom deal after that's signed off, and drop back to stock as needed for smog.

Going over some of your pictures, my own and others on the web has made me appreciate what's involved with getting the block out of the way of the transmission and vice versa.
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Re: turbo V6, AUS Delivered St185, track car

Postby fibrewizard » Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:52 pm

thanks for the rav 4 3vzfe blog.... appreciated...
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Re: turbo V6, AUS Delivered St185, track car

Postby fibrewizard » Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:56 pm


Do you think cutting the heat shielding and maybe kinking the pipe would do it? I'm less concenred about performance, more just for the sake of passing visual inspection. I can throw on some custom deal after that's signed off, and drop back to stock as needed for smog.

Going over some of your pictures, my own and others on the web has made me appreciate what's involved with getting the block out of the way of the transmission and vice versa.



the 4wd transmission will not fit with 3vzfe stock rear exhaust manifold, custom or modification to manifold is needed....
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Re: turbo V6, AUS Delivered St185, track car

Postby fibrewizard » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:43 pm

actually from what I have read recently the front Manifold can be used on the rear bank, to change direction of exhaust, and clearing the transfer case, so I will be investigating this option......
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Re: turbo V6, AUS Delivered St185, track car

Postby de_engineered » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:49 am

fibrewizard wrote:thanks for the rav 4 3vzfe blog.... appreciated...

Welcome kindly.

fibrewizard wrote:actually from what I have read recently the front Manifold can be used on the rear bank, to change direction of exhaust, and clearing the transfer case, so I will be investigating this option......

Now I wana monkey around the local junk yard, swap manifolds on one of the cars and see what kind of clearance it gives. Hope the pan doesn't get in the way then.

If we want to get really silly though, there *is* always flipping the y-pipe 180 with the manifolds, and maybe routing the exhaust up and out like a diesel stack, lolz.
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Re: turbo V6, AUS Delivered St185, track car

Postby fibrewizard » Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:00 am

lol, yeah I was originally planning to bring rear bank exhaust horizontal and bring it over transmission to front right corner where battery usually is......

but that will be very close to distributor, so I was going to change to a individual coil pack....... but that hadn't got much further then thought............

I have both transmissions here, a gt4 transmission and the e53 camry 5 speed.....
id love for the transfer case to bolt straight into the camry box, and from what I have read it wont be too difficult....... so stay tuned,

I have begun to teardown my st184, and transfer what parts are needed to gt4, eg. parker lenses, bumper, carlos sainz bonnet/hood, etc,

will post up some pics.....

not me in pic, but that is my son helping out.....

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