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88 St165 Revival

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:58 am
by T-rilla
Hello Alltrac.net. I have always wanted an Alltrac and finally found one. I picked up my 88 Alltrac a few months ago. I would like some opinions on what I should do from those who have been there and done that. My goal is 340-360 wheel HP (400ish crank) for a fun spirited driver, not a daily but want it to stay fun enough I can just hop in and take it to work or run erans if wanted. I got it with the motor/trans ect out of the car and torn apart. I have picked up a gen 2 3sgte for free that I have built and will be swapping it in. Build will be on a semi budget as wife/kids come first. Current parts list...

2nd gen 3sgte from a 91 MR2
Eagle rods
Wisco Pistons (87mm)
Fully balanced rotating assembly
Head cleaned and valves cut
Cometic head gasket
Arp head studs, main studs, Rod bolts.
6 puck clutch and light flywheel
Side feed intake manifold from a 3sge
Solid motor mounts

Things I am working towards tracking down-
Turbo (CT27 is current thoughts)
EMS
Front mount intercooler
Radiator and electric fans
Injectors/rail


I have been wanting to get the CT27 or have drift motion rebuild my CT26 with a 57 wheel. This reasonable for my wants?

How about the fuel system? I will get 255 pump and new fuel filter. But is top feed worth it since I will need injectors or bore the rail and stay side feed?

Anyone have a similar setup and want to share there experience?

Re: 88 St165 Revival

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:04 am
by T-rilla
Some pics of where it's at so far. How I got it.
Image

Image

Snagged some wheels and tires from a buddy. And washed it.

Image

Image

Re: 88 St165 Revival

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:27 am
by underscore
I'd love to get my hands on an IMSA 165 one day, nice find!

Re: 88 St165 Revival

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:08 am
by GT4times2
underscore wrote:I'd love to get my hands on an IMSA 165 one day, nice find!



You know, there's really nothing different about the IMSA 165 that sets it apart from non-IMSA All-Tracs? Just the sticker and the fact that there were used for certain events. There are no performance, brakes or suspension advantages.

Just saying.


T-rilla wrote:Hello Alltrac.net. I have always wanted an Alltrac and finally found one. I picked up my 88 Alltrac a few months ago. I would like some opinions on what I should do from those who have been there and done that. My goal is 340-360 wheel HP (400ish crank) for a fun spirited driver, not a daily but want it to stay fun enough I can just hop in and take it to work or run erans if wanted. I got it with the motor/trans ect out of the car and torn apart. I have picked up a gen 2 3sgte for free that I have built and will be swapping it in. Build will be on a semi budget as wife/kids come first. Current parts list...

2nd gen 3sgte from a 91 MR2
Eagle rods
Wisco Pistons (87mm)
Fully balanced rotating assembly
Head cleaned and valves cut
Cometic head gasket
Arp head studs, main studs, Rod bolts.
6 puck clutch and light flywheel
Side feed intake manifold from a 3sge
Solid motor mounts

Things I am working towards tracking down-
Turbo (CT27 is current thoughts)
EMS
Front mount intercooler
Radiator and electric fans
Injectors/rail


I have been wanting to get the CT27 or have drift motion rebuild my CT26 with a 57 wheel. This reasonable for my wants?

How about the fuel system? I will get 255 pump and new fuel filter. But is top feed worth it since I will need injectors or bore the rail and stay side feed?

Anyone have a similar setup and want to share there experience?



I would just get a more modern turbo for what the price of CT27s go for new. Only advantage I can see with the CT27 is bolt on. For half the price you can get a nice Holset HX35 or HY35 that would get you better results and good spool up. Or shop around, and you can get a GT2871-R, GT3076 for well under $1k.

Gotta shop around. Going with a Garret or Holset T3 Flange turbo would require you get an adapter plate, DP etc. Well worth moving away from CT turbos. (Limited in my opinion). What most want for a CT20, you're still in Holset HX30, HX35, HY35 territory. DSM, Mopar, Honda guys have success with them. Plenty Holsets to go around.

EMS. Plenty of choices. I'd go with something affordable with the numbers you want. Long gone are days of VPCs and black boxes. AEM EMS-4, Mega Squirt, ECU Master to name a few would be a good start. The age and condition of the factory harness would be one of the reasons to encourage anyone with sense to get a new harness and start from scratch. If you're not comfortable doing it yourself, plenty of places can do it for you.

Fuel Rail. Look at Wolfkatz, ATS, Racer X for those.

FMIC. Plenty online. You can go WTA as well. Plenty of good options for those too. Choice is yours.

Now, my questions are...what's your budget? Who's tuning?

Should be fun. Enjoy!! Keep us updated.

Re: 88 St165 Revival

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:17 pm
by underscore
GT4times2 wrote:
underscore wrote:I'd love to get my hands on an IMSA 165 one day, nice find!



You know, there's really nothing different about the IMSA 165 that sets it apart from non-IMSA All-Tracs? Just the sticker and the fact that there were used for certain events. There are no performance, brakes or suspension advantages.

Just saying.


Oh I know, it's just neat because they're rare and I love the look of a white 165.

Re: 88 St165 Revival

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:23 am
by T-rilla
underscore wrote:I'd love to get my hands on an IMSA 165 one day, nice find!



Thanks! Still not sure if it's a real One but love it none the less!

Re: 88 St165 Revival

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:47 am
by T-rilla
GT4times2 wrote:
underscore wrote:I'd love to get my hands on an IMSA 165 one day, nice find!



You know, there's really nothing different about the IMSA 165 that sets it apart....


Even if there was I guarantee it would be changed due to age/mods. Still cool though.

GT4times2 wrote:I would just get a more modern turbo for what the price of CT27s go for new. Only advantage I can see with the CT27 is bolt on. For half the price you can get a nice Holset HX35 or HY35 that would get you better results and good spool up. Or shop around, and you can get a GT2871-R, GT3076 for well under $1k.

Gotta shop around. Going with a Garret or Holset T3 Flange turbo would require you get an adapter plate, DP etc. Well worth moving away from CT turbos. (Limited in my opinion). What most want for a CT20, you're still in Holset HX30, HX35, HY35 territory. DSM, Mopar, Honda guys have success with them. Plenty Holsets to go around.

EMS. Plenty of choices. I'd go with something affordable with the numbers you want. Long gone are days of VPCs and black boxes. AEM EMS-4, Mega Squirt, ECU Master to name a few would be a good start. The age and condition of the factory harness would be one of the reasons to encourage anyone with sense to get a new harness and start from scratch. If you're not comfortable doing it yourself, plenty of places can do it for you.

Fuel Rail. Look at Wolfkatz, ATS, Racer X for those.

FMIC. Plenty online. You can go WTA as well. Plenty of good options for those too. Choice is yours.

Now, my questions are...what's your budget? Who's tuning?

Should be fun. Enjoy!! Keep us updated.


You know it's funny I figured that out maybe an hour after posting and have been reading up a lot about the holset Hx35 and the HY35 as well. Looks like a great candidate for me. I like the CT27 and think it's a great setup. Seams easy since I have one to be rebuilt ect. But I was feeling a bit hesitant since I would push it to its max to get close to or fall just short of where I want to be. But most other options are $$$$ then I came across the HX35. For me it's a perfect fit bang for buck, easy to find ect. Glad I wasn't up in the night. Cost for the HX35 and other misc to install it will be the same as a CT27 but with more potential if wanted later.

I have a buddy who will probably chime in at some point and mentioned to me the factory harness gets hard and brittle from the heat over time. My only hang up there is what EMS and what sensors will I be using ect. Since it's a simple motor electrical wise I may just build my own as I have done this before on other projects. But want to know what is needed before I go down that road haha.

I have read as heard good things about Haltech, mega-squirt, and AEM. Leaning towards Haltech right now but no real reason over another. Was going to find a tuner once I am closer to that point and speak with them before I purchase an EMS.

I am assuming top feed is the way I should go as I have to buy injectors already? I like the simplicity of the ATS kit.

I decided to go FMIC for simplicity and from my under standing more efficiency, the factory WTA setup is incomplete and would have to track down an entire system from a 185 ect... plus I am a sucker for the look of a clean FMIC.

My budget isn't set anywhere. Just building as I go with a "don't brake the bank" but do it right mentality. I don't want it to turn into a 10k$ project and love cheap mods when reasonable (like the HX35 ect) but willing to put $$ where is needs to be. I will be taking my time a bit more then I am used to as I am having my 5 year old help me put things together, after all he is the one that asked for a "racecar" then we went and got this. So I am trying to build it with him for fun.

Thanks for the reply! Anyone feel free to chime in with any ideas or thoughts on things I should do or shouldn't do!

Re: 88 St165 Revival

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:20 am
by T-rilla
I got the HX35 and an adapter plate to keep it twin scroll, have it bolted up and clicked it so the charge side clears the block. A little nervous about room for the slave cylinder but that hurdle will come. Not ordering all the supporting stuff to get it in. Image

Re: 88 St165 Revival

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:20 am
by GT4times2
Nice!! I didn't see this post. Any updates since?

Re: 88 St165 Revival

PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:12 pm
by T-rilla
Thanks! I have purchased
ATS top feed fuel rail
ATS braided fuel line kit
ATS turbo oil drain kit
Aluminum radiator
2 12" slim fans
FMIC and piping
Solid brass shifter bushings
Solid front and back motor mount inserts (still looking for left and right inserts(my factory ones are shot)
I pieced together the oil feed with some fitting an stainless braided line
ATS TVIS delete "phenolic" sp? Spacer for the intake
Put in a light aluminum flywheel and solid 6 puck disk
HKS sq4 blow off valve
KO TB pipe 2.5" without the factory taper

I have found the turbo hits the tranny (figured it would but was hoping it would fit) So now I am planing on building my own manifold based on the factory one but will push it out an inch and turn it a little to clock the whole turbo so the drain is straight down and push the housing away from the starter. I want to keep it divided and twin scroll. I figured this would fit the $$ I want to spend and keep the setup I want. Or bling bling full race manifold but should certainly do my 400whp goals (based off of reading what a stock manifold does)

So the next step is find mount inserters for left and right mounts, put the motor/trans in and radiator and see what position is best for the turbo before I build a manifold and "hope it fits" with the radiator in haha.

Then the hard part IMHO, get a stand alone and make it work... I want factory gauges to work, still thinking Haltech but debating converting my harness to 185 or. Going aftermarket sensors and home made harness and not running factory gauges... oh decisions... sorry for my rambling but figured I would throw it out there and see if any opinions surface to help with my decisions.