ST185 transmission swap into ST165?

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ST185 transmission swap into ST165?

Postby wound3S » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:41 pm

The transmission in my ST165 tends to grind going into third. A friend of mine offered his JDM ST185 transmission that he got with a 3S-GTE that went into an MR2. Is this pretty much a direct replacement? I couldn't find anything by searching.
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Postby 88st165 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:08 pm

Yeah it will bolt right up.

Speedo cable might be different or maybe thats only an issue with the 205 trans. I believe that could possibly be the only issue. The 165 axles should work with the 185 trans no problem.
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Postby wound3S » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:30 pm

Good point. I remember with MR2s the E153 trannies switch from mechanical to electric speedometer sensors in 1993, so if that was the same with alltracs then I'll need to switch out the old one. IIRC that was not too big of a deal. Thanks for the info.
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Postby All-Trac Dude08 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:06 pm

Well my speedo cable in my st165 broke so I went to the junkyard and got on of a st182. The only difference was that it was about an inch longer, so I don't think that the st185 cable will be too different.
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Postby Shaggz00 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:33 pm

The biggest difference when it comes to swapping, is that you must use the 165 top trans mount. The 185 mount is too wide. Using the 185 rear mount is ok, and cool because it has that little extra brace for whatever reason. Also, the 165 axles WILL work, in case there is any doubt.
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Postby WideFNopen » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:08 am

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you are going to miss your st165 first gear. The 185 first is quite a bit longer.
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Postby Shaggz00 » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:47 am

WideFNopen wrote:I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you are going to miss your st165 first gear. The 185 first is quite a bit longer.


I went from 165 to 185 and back to 165 (only because the 185 trans had problems) and I miss the 185 1st gear! haha. I had forgotten how short the 165 gear is... :(
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Postby wound3S » Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:07 pm

Uhh, the number i have are:
chassis first.final.overall first gear ratio
ST165: 3.583 3.933 14.092
ST185: 3.384 4.285 14.500

Unless my numbers are wrong the ST185 first gear will be about 3% shorter.
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Postby WideFNopen » Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:02 pm

Higher the number, shorter the gear.
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Postby WideFNopen » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:44 am

wound3S wrote:Uhh, the number i have are:
chassis first.final.overall first gear ratio
ST165: 3.583 3.933 14.092
ST185: 3.384 4.285 14.500

Unless my numbers are wrong the ST185 first gear will be about 3% shorter.


I see what you are saying now that I learned to read.

Does the center diff determine the final drive?

Now that I have thought about it, I have a 185 trans with a 165 center diff. If the diff determines the final drive that would explain why I have a longer first now.
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Postby WideFNopen » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:11 pm

wound3S wrote:Uhh, the number i have are:
chassis first.final.overall first gear ratio
ST165: 3.583 3.933 14.092
ST185: 3.384 4.285 14.500

Unless my numbers are wrong the ST185 first gear will be about 3% shorter.


According to this thread all but the RC trans have the same final drive (4.285):

http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=24253

That would explain the shorter first gear in the 165s.
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Postby RedCelicaTRD » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:53 pm

RC, Euro and I've heard Autrailian all have the 3.9 final.

On a side note, RC=ST165 w/ 3.9 final. I've always just thought that was interesting.
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Postby wound3S » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:22 pm

The ST165 final drive has been used by several MR2 Turbo owners. I found this on the MR2OC board:

"3.933 Shaft, Output_______ 33321-20120
3.933 Gear, Ring__________ 41221-12240
3.933 Gear, Oil Pump____ 33407-12011


These part numbers are from an ST165 (88-89 All Trac)"

The MR2T also has the .731 fifth gear like all all-tracs but will rev at about 3100rpm at 60mph IIRC... my ST165 is well below 3000 with about the same tire size.

Personally I love having the wide, long gearing. It's great. I'm used to driving an '85 MR2 which revs about 3300 at 60mph, though :)
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Postby RedCelicaTRD » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:31 pm

People over at the MR2 boards have been reading the same wrong information for years. The 3.9 final drive was never avaliable in the ST165, only the 4.2 was.
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Postby wound3S » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:12 pm

Right, but there are multiple MR2 owners who have swapped this final drive into their MR2s (with the alltrac part number).

I can't remember if it's ATS or MCS motorsports that installs new OEM ST165 final drives with their rebuilt transmissions.

Plus having owned both MR2T and ST165, I can vouch that fifth gear is much longer in the celica -- though the actual fifth gear ratio is the same and the tire is less than 1% difference in diameters.

If I have the choice between believing my tachometer as well as dozens of MR2 owners or Hyper Rev, it's not a hard choice.
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