So I've loved my ST185 for the last 3 years ive owned it and am think about puchashing a ST205. The car is a 94 WRC model with 94xxxkm mostly stock other than(intake,exhaust,gauges,coilovers and a bolt in roll cage.) on it and I was just wondering what would be good things to check out on it before i puchase. Im more concerned with hard to obtain parts and comonly faulty parts moreso than your generic vehicle inspection. I know brakes a bit of a issue to get for these vehicles since they where never sold over here and i figure there are some other parts. As well I heard something about the figure 8 links are commonly worn on these and are a PITA to install. How would I check these?
Thinking about a ST-205
- Thread starter ~CDUB~
- Start date
schweizerceli
New member
This is taken from GT4OC.net and is a super rundown on the common pitfalls of these ST205s. The UK sites have a ton of info in them...
Start Quote from GT4OC
Well, will kick off with the most possibly the most notorious part of the ST205, the dreaded fig8`s.
What are fig 8`s?
Figure eights are a small link that connects the bottom of the shock absorber to the front lower arm (front wheels only). It looks like this..
When you are buying a car, chances are you wont get to see this view and probably wont be bothered to take the wheel off. There are several ways to check the condition of the fig8`s One is to try to rock the wheel backwards and forwards in the direction of rotation, if they are really bad you will notice the wheel rolling within the wheel arch, this shows that the fig8 is very worn indeed, and will effect the control of the car be very careful should you decide to proceed from this point further, and go for a test drive.
Should this test not reveal any forward/backward motion but you can hear a slight knocking sound from the front of the car as you go over a bump, (also it can happen under braking) then chances are it is a duff fig8. They cost around £60 - £90 each to replace and it has been advised to replace the lower arms as well, these cost from £220 - £290 each so before you have even started down the modding/upkeep road, you are already facing a bill of £560 - £760 plus labour charges if you don't fix it yourself.
Staying with knocking sounds we`ll now move to the rear of the car and look at something called the rear diff mount
What is the rear diff mount?
The rear diff mount is as it says, a mounting plate for the rear differential. The diff mount is located just in front of the petrol tank and is mounted to the rear sub-frame and helps to hold the rear diff in place, as with the fig 8`s you probably wont want to crawl under the car to take a look, even if you did, there isn't a lot to see although if you have a torch, you may be able to do a visual check on the condition of the rubber.
The best way to check the condition of the rear diff mount is to take the car for a drive over some bumps, and listen out for a knocking at the rear of the car, it can also happen under braking if the diff mount is in particularly bad condition. A replacement Diff mount is £100 and can be replaced in about half an hour if you have ramps and the right equipment.
What else to look out for
As with every car that you purchase there are some common things to look out for, erratic and rough idle, smoke from the exhaust, general look of the car etc, I`m a firm believer that if the car dosnt look right, then it isn't - walk away.
Take a look at the body panels, are they bent, covered in dints?? Are the gaps between the panels an even distance apart all the way along??? Open and shut the doors - do they close correctly??
If you are buying an import, take a look under the wheel arches to see if they have been under sealed. (will look like rough paint, usually black), also check under the sills to see if it has been under sealed everywhere�a lot of places only do under the arches. Look for signs of rust, especially on the sills where the door meats the front wing, run you fingers along the underside of the door when it is open, see if you can feel any signs of rust coming through there. Open the boot and lift the carpet up..is there a space saver spare wheel??? Check the boot floor and make sure there are no signs of rippling (could indicate a rear end shunt) open the little door inside the boot on the right hand side - is there a jack there. Look under the petrol tank, any signs of a leak??? Feel the carpet in the boot -is it damp??
Move around to the passenger side, feel the foot well carpet, is it damp (could indicate a busted heater matrix) Look at the stereo if it has one, turn it on (with the ignition on) does the electric Ariel move up and down smoothly, or at all in some cases.
Back to the drivers seat, waggle the steering wheel left and right, is there any play, knocking noises. Whilst you are doing that, you can make a note of the mileage to see if tallies up with the MOT documents. Check the speedo if it is an import, has it been adapted to read in MHP instead of KMPH?? Pull the bonnet catch and take a look in the engine bay,
Is there any oil sprayed onto the underside of the bonnet?, check to see if there are any modifications to the car, an obvious one to look out for is a dump valve. Look at the general condition of the engine bay, any oil leaks from around the rocker cover??? Or the turbo??? Check the oil level with the dipstick.
If you can take a torch with you to check down the front of the engine and as much as you can down the back and sides, look for any strange oil leaks or marks. Also check to see if there is any indication as to when the last timing belt change was, it is sometimes marked on the top of the cam belt cover. If not find out when the last timing belt change was done and get as much proof of this as you can, don't just take some ones word for it. Also check the condition of the other belts, look for cracks in the rubber.
Next take the radiator cap off and look at the condition of the water. And do a quick visual check on the other fluid levels.
Check the tyres, are they correctly inflated? And is the tyre worn evenly across its width? (a sign of the tracking being out if it isnt)
The Test Drive
Start her up and listen to the tick over, then go around to the back of the car and check out the exhaust gasses, they should be a light/mid grey colour. Whilst your there check the inside of the exhaust, if its got a white deposit around it, it's a sign it has been running lean...not a good thing on GT4`s, a quick check under the bonnet, undo the charge cooler filler and look down into the charge cooler, blip the throttle, make sure the coolant is being sucked down by the charge cooler water pump. (charge cooler liquid should be red)
Don't floor it straight away when you set off, the current owner will cringe if he knows anything about cars. Drive around for a while and get the feel of the car, does it turn smoothly? listen for any knocks coming from the front or back of the car (as mentioned before). Any noises when you turn left or right? take it into a car park and do some low speed tight turns, knocking could indicate worn bearings. When the car has had chance to warm up say 20mins or so its time to put yer foot down a bit. When you do, take a look in the mirror and look for signs of blackish/blue smoke (worn turbo seals). Do a brake test. At about 30 ish mph take your hands off the steering wheel and apply the brakes, does the car pull to one side??? It should slow down in a straight line.
When you get back to the owners house / meeting point, let the car sit at idle for a bit, it should stay around the 750RPM mark with very little variation in tickover speed. Leave the engine running and check under the bonnet again, listen for any out of place noises, lift the dipstick slightly (about 3 inches) look for smoke coming out of the dipstick (blown ringlands).
Last but not least, if you can do an error code check.
Th th th th th that's all folks!.. if all of these tests don't reveal any problems - chances are you have a good car, but don't forget to do a HPi check just to be doubly sure. Good car hunting
End Quote from GT4OC
Start Quote from GT4OC
Well, will kick off with the most possibly the most notorious part of the ST205, the dreaded fig8`s.
What are fig 8`s?
Figure eights are a small link that connects the bottom of the shock absorber to the front lower arm (front wheels only). It looks like this..
When you are buying a car, chances are you wont get to see this view and probably wont be bothered to take the wheel off. There are several ways to check the condition of the fig8`s One is to try to rock the wheel backwards and forwards in the direction of rotation, if they are really bad you will notice the wheel rolling within the wheel arch, this shows that the fig8 is very worn indeed, and will effect the control of the car be very careful should you decide to proceed from this point further, and go for a test drive.
Should this test not reveal any forward/backward motion but you can hear a slight knocking sound from the front of the car as you go over a bump, (also it can happen under braking) then chances are it is a duff fig8. They cost around £60 - £90 each to replace and it has been advised to replace the lower arms as well, these cost from £220 - £290 each so before you have even started down the modding/upkeep road, you are already facing a bill of £560 - £760 plus labour charges if you don't fix it yourself.
Staying with knocking sounds we`ll now move to the rear of the car and look at something called the rear diff mount
What is the rear diff mount?
The rear diff mount is as it says, a mounting plate for the rear differential. The diff mount is located just in front of the petrol tank and is mounted to the rear sub-frame and helps to hold the rear diff in place, as with the fig 8`s you probably wont want to crawl under the car to take a look, even if you did, there isn't a lot to see although if you have a torch, you may be able to do a visual check on the condition of the rubber.
The best way to check the condition of the rear diff mount is to take the car for a drive over some bumps, and listen out for a knocking at the rear of the car, it can also happen under braking if the diff mount is in particularly bad condition. A replacement Diff mount is £100 and can be replaced in about half an hour if you have ramps and the right equipment.
What else to look out for
As with every car that you purchase there are some common things to look out for, erratic and rough idle, smoke from the exhaust, general look of the car etc, I`m a firm believer that if the car dosnt look right, then it isn't - walk away.
Take a look at the body panels, are they bent, covered in dints?? Are the gaps between the panels an even distance apart all the way along??? Open and shut the doors - do they close correctly??
If you are buying an import, take a look under the wheel arches to see if they have been under sealed. (will look like rough paint, usually black), also check under the sills to see if it has been under sealed everywhere�a lot of places only do under the arches. Look for signs of rust, especially on the sills where the door meats the front wing, run you fingers along the underside of the door when it is open, see if you can feel any signs of rust coming through there. Open the boot and lift the carpet up..is there a space saver spare wheel??? Check the boot floor and make sure there are no signs of rippling (could indicate a rear end shunt) open the little door inside the boot on the right hand side - is there a jack there. Look under the petrol tank, any signs of a leak??? Feel the carpet in the boot -is it damp??
Move around to the passenger side, feel the foot well carpet, is it damp (could indicate a busted heater matrix) Look at the stereo if it has one, turn it on (with the ignition on) does the electric Ariel move up and down smoothly, or at all in some cases.
Back to the drivers seat, waggle the steering wheel left and right, is there any play, knocking noises. Whilst you are doing that, you can make a note of the mileage to see if tallies up with the MOT documents. Check the speedo if it is an import, has it been adapted to read in MHP instead of KMPH?? Pull the bonnet catch and take a look in the engine bay,
Is there any oil sprayed onto the underside of the bonnet?, check to see if there are any modifications to the car, an obvious one to look out for is a dump valve. Look at the general condition of the engine bay, any oil leaks from around the rocker cover??? Or the turbo??? Check the oil level with the dipstick.
If you can take a torch with you to check down the front of the engine and as much as you can down the back and sides, look for any strange oil leaks or marks. Also check to see if there is any indication as to when the last timing belt change was, it is sometimes marked on the top of the cam belt cover. If not find out when the last timing belt change was done and get as much proof of this as you can, don't just take some ones word for it. Also check the condition of the other belts, look for cracks in the rubber.
Next take the radiator cap off and look at the condition of the water. And do a quick visual check on the other fluid levels.
Check the tyres, are they correctly inflated? And is the tyre worn evenly across its width? (a sign of the tracking being out if it isnt)
The Test Drive
Start her up and listen to the tick over, then go around to the back of the car and check out the exhaust gasses, they should be a light/mid grey colour. Whilst your there check the inside of the exhaust, if its got a white deposit around it, it's a sign it has been running lean...not a good thing on GT4`s, a quick check under the bonnet, undo the charge cooler filler and look down into the charge cooler, blip the throttle, make sure the coolant is being sucked down by the charge cooler water pump. (charge cooler liquid should be red)
Don't floor it straight away when you set off, the current owner will cringe if he knows anything about cars. Drive around for a while and get the feel of the car, does it turn smoothly? listen for any knocks coming from the front or back of the car (as mentioned before). Any noises when you turn left or right? take it into a car park and do some low speed tight turns, knocking could indicate worn bearings. When the car has had chance to warm up say 20mins or so its time to put yer foot down a bit. When you do, take a look in the mirror and look for signs of blackish/blue smoke (worn turbo seals). Do a brake test. At about 30 ish mph take your hands off the steering wheel and apply the brakes, does the car pull to one side??? It should slow down in a straight line.
When you get back to the owners house / meeting point, let the car sit at idle for a bit, it should stay around the 750RPM mark with very little variation in tickover speed. Leave the engine running and check under the bonnet again, listen for any out of place noises, lift the dipstick slightly (about 3 inches) look for smoke coming out of the dipstick (blown ringlands).
Last but not least, if you can do an error code check.
Th th th th th that's all folks!.. if all of these tests don't reveal any problems - chances are you have a good car, but don't forget to do a HPi check just to be doubly sure. Good car hunting
End Quote from GT4OC
GTFOURST205guy
New member
so I am officially scared to get my st205. thanks!
Insanity-74
New member
I wrote all that ^. 
Dont worry about looking at a GT4, its not as scarry as you think, if you go with a sensible head on and dont rush into anything you`ll be just fine.
Dont worry about looking at a GT4, its not as scarry as you think, if you go with a sensible head on and dont rush into anything you`ll be just fine.
LegacyofDan
New member
can we have pics of these fig 8's that were mentioned?
just sorta curious
everything sounds very typical of all cars, but the fig 8 was the only thing that caught my eye
just sorta curious
everything sounds very typical of all cars, but the fig 8 was the only thing that caught my eye
Insanity-74
New member
LegacyofDan
New member
thanks
GTFOURST205guy
New member
Insanity-74":qnpsvzh0 said:I wrote all that ^.
Dont worry about looking at a GT4, its not as scarry as you think, if you go with a sensible head on and dont rush into anything you`ll be just fine.
Well it makes everything less scary knowing I have you guys here. However I was hoping I could mostly put money into performance over simple maintenance although I know I can't expect some dream car that maintains itself.
Gary ST165
New member
be afraid, be very afraid :lol:
the 1st year of maintenance bills can sometimes cost as much as the purchase price for a fresh 60K import ST205 ...
Typical price in GBP
£1200 superstrut suspension parts: 2 x camber control arm links (fig. 8s ) + 2 x no.1 lower arms + 2 x no.2 arms (banana arms) + 2 x crush tubes.
£400 for new OEM shock absorbers / £1500 for coilovers
£120 rear diff mount
£350 brake rotors
£300 clutch
etc etc
+ ££££ labour :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
+ service parts: fluids, ignition components, brake pads etc
very cheap to buy, but expensive to maintain... hence why so many of them are constantly being broken for spares on this side of the pond...
the 1st year of maintenance bills can sometimes cost as much as the purchase price for a fresh 60K import ST205 ...
Typical price in GBP
£1200 superstrut suspension parts: 2 x camber control arm links (fig. 8s ) + 2 x no.1 lower arms + 2 x no.2 arms (banana arms) + 2 x crush tubes.
£400 for new OEM shock absorbers / £1500 for coilovers
£120 rear diff mount
£350 brake rotors
£300 clutch
etc etc
+ ££££ labour :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
+ service parts: fluids, ignition components, brake pads etc
very cheap to buy, but expensive to maintain... hence why so many of them are constantly being broken for spares on this side of the pond...
Well doesn't sound any different than purchasing a st185 other than the fig 8s. I'm not to worried purchasing a car from this place as Its the same place i got my 185 from and it has been great to me for over 65xxxkms. As well he has sent me quite a few pictures of the car and it looks to be extremely clean. It had brand new Tein coilovers and new rotors+pads put on it before it was brought over.
One question i have is that it has a HKS oil filter relocation and oil cooler kit installed on the car which i like (makes for a much cleaner and easier oil change) but what filter am i going to have to use with this setup?
Heres a pic of the engine bay ( as i said clean)
Also would anybody know what type of bulb it uses in all the lights in the front?(high, low, corner, fogs?) As well I have a alum diff mount sitting here that ordered for my 185 that i haven't installed yet and was wondering if the 205 mounts are the same.
One question i have is that it has a HKS oil filter relocation and oil cooler kit installed on the car which i like (makes for a much cleaner and easier oil change) but what filter am i going to have to use with this setup?
Also would anybody know what type of bulb it uses in all the lights in the front?(high, low, corner, fogs?) As well I have a alum diff mount sitting here that ordered for my 185 that i haven't installed yet and was wondering if the 205 mounts are the same.
GTFOURST205guy
New member
~CDUB~":2bm01fmi said:Well doesn't sound any different than purchasing a st185 other than the fig 8s. I'm not to worried purchasing a car from this place as Its the same place i got my 185 from and it has been great to me for over 65xxxkms. As well he has sent me quite a few pictures of the car and it looks to be extremely clean. It had brand new Tein coilovers and new rotors+pads put on it before it was brought over.
One question i have is that it has a HKS oil filter relocation and oil cooler kit installed on the car which i like (makes for a much cleaner and easier oil change) but what filter am i going to have to use with this setup?
Heres a pic of the engine bay ( as i said clean)
Also would anybody know what type of bulb it uses in all the lights in the front?(high, low, corner, fogs?) As well I have a alum diff mount sitting here that ordered for my 185 that i haven't installed yet and was wondering if the 205 mounts are the same.
Jealous! Mine doesn't look nearly as clean because unfortunately I didn't get to see many pictures before I purchased it. My mistake though, I was a bit too excited and impatient but I have learned my lesson. Hopefully it just needs a light cleaning to look good again.
okay well im probably going to make the 3hour drive tommorow and pick up the car. He has sent me a bunch of pics of the underside and am just wondering a few things.
1. He says it has tein coilovers on it but in the pictures the coilovers are blue with a orange/gold spring. All the tein I have seen are green/black What brand are these.
2. As well it has a front underbody brace that im sure is not stock. What company produces this.
*edit* apprently my pics are to big and im at work currently. have to wait till im at home to upload them.
1. He says it has tein coilovers on it but in the pictures the coilovers are blue with a orange/gold spring. All the tein I have seen are green/black What brand are these.
2. As well it has a front underbody brace that im sure is not stock. What company produces this.
*edit* apprently my pics are to big and im at work currently. have to wait till im at home to upload them.
Insanity-74
New member
Underbody braces are usually made by Cusco.
Insanity-74":1nv97fsj said:
Ya im pretty sure its a cusco product but i cant come up with anything for what brand the coilovers are
I've attached the picture he sent that shows a bit of the coil and the brace.
as well I've attached a pic that he sent me thats suppose to show the rear diff mount ill throw it up as well if anyone spots anything perculiar please let me know.
Attachments
Insanity-74
New member
Get rid of that underbody brace thing...they are a total waste of time as the sub frame of a GT4 is more than strong enough, all your doing is adding weight. Sell it and use the cash to put towards something worthwhile.
I had a 1993 GT4 and sold it to get my 1994 Celica GT4 and I can tell you as long as you buy one in decent shape, you wont regret it. The differance is huge in preformance, handling and styling. But do all the little maintance first before you do any mods or you will regret it for sure. One thing about celicas is that they wont tolerate a lack of maintance.