ST205 Front clip, mounted on st185 chassis.

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ST205 Front clip, mounted on st185 chassis.

Postby Kappa » Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:48 am

I want to know if this is possible. I'd rather have a 3rd Gen 3sgte if I could get it. So is it possible, do the motor mounts match up and whatnot? Does it line up to the driveshaft at all? I'm just curious because I'll probably end up ordering a front clip (unless someone have a wrecked car w/ a drivetrain, i need everything from the driveshaft up.)

Any info/feedback would be excellent.
Thanks,
Romeo
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Postby Gary » Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:14 am

Yes, people have done it.
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Postby Kappa » Sat Sep 25, 2004 8:12 am

good or bad idea? are there any threads? the search didn't yield any...
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Postby alltracman78 » Sat Sep 25, 2004 8:58 am

Should all bolt right in...
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Postby CMS-GT4 » Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:07 pm

Its more cost effective to build a 2nd gen 3sgte then to swap and build a 3rd gen. For the same cost, you would have a better engine with more power, IMHO.

Est. 4K+ swap.

4k Forged internals, better turbo etc...
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Postby Kappa » Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:14 pm

Okay, someone's telling me bolts right up, someone else is telling me that it's not cost effective? Is is the cost of the clip that prohibits it? Or what? Like the driveshafte lines up, etc. Is there any extra wiring work involved in the ECU and such (like any plugs that're missing and need to be added??)

Also, do you know of a place that has the ST front clips in stock, my guy that I usually deal with only ever has one or two a year. If you know of a place or person that has them from time to time I'd leave to hear more! :) Thanks a bunch.

Dennis
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Postby CMS-GT4 » Sat Sep 25, 2004 8:04 pm

Should bolt up. You will have to find out how to make the speedo reader work. 185 uses a gear, I think 205 is elec.

Axels gearbox ect works together. I have heard that wiring any JDM 3sgte into a celica is a pin, and costly to have done.

I think the cost alone of the parts for a 205 clip is too much weighed against the cost of tuning a 2nd gen. IMHO.
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Postby Kappa » Sat Sep 25, 2004 8:08 pm

the speedo thing isn't a big deal, i've dealt w/ that on MR2 3rd gen swaps, and if I can get a harness, I can get it working. I just need the plugs to match up, other than that I can do all the wiring behind those plugs.

And you're referring to the cost of replacing like the head gasket or somethign like that that isnt' the same as the 2nd Gen, I'm not worried about it. I'm jus curoius about bolting it up and the location of everything like the clutch lines and such.
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Postby illGT4 » Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:34 pm

it's just the old 2nd gen vs. 3rd gen debate.

you can get the same power out of either of them.
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Postby LechacZ » Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:45 pm

I've done it and yes it is a straight drop in... The mounts have to be taken from the second gen and it fits in perfectly.
Shafts fit in perfectly, hood clearance is OK except for the rubber piece around the scoop which will have to be removed unless u want to scratch up the IC, the speedo will be the second gen swapped into the 3rd gen...
Mechanically its a piece of cake, electrical side is a different animal though!
Wiring will take a lot of time and patience
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Postby Kappa » Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:00 pm

I wouldn't say the 3rd gen is the only that the st205 has to offer. It has a better transmission, some of them (very few however) came with factory water injection, and a bunch of other goodies i'd like ot get my hands on. plus after working with both the CT26, and "CT20b" turbochargers on MR2s, and knowing that i'm not interested in upgrading this turbocharger (that's what my MR2 is for), I'd much rather have the CT20b anyways.

I was just curious, thank you for the answers.

LechacZ, I take it you have done this before, can I reach you through Email or IM to get some more information off you. My email is dennis@dennisinhawaii.com I'd love to catch some info from you. :)

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Postby illGT4 » Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:59 pm

water injection was is not installed. However It is there. Same with the anti-lag.

(options on WRC models and some are saying the first few XXX models of ST205
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Postby alltracman78 » Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:09 am

Kappa wrote:Okay, someone's telling me bolts right up, someone else is telling me that it's not cost effective? Is is the cost of the clip that prohibits it? Or what? Like the driveshafte lines up, etc. Is there any extra wiring work involved in the ECU and such (like any plugs that're missing and need to be added??)


1st off, this is all what I've read, I've never actually done this, soo....

All mech parts will bolt right in. If you have a clip, you have the ecu, and all wiring. You probably want (if you can get it) wiring diagrams of the 205. There's 2 plugs next to the ecu that come from the engine wiring harness (on the 185), you will have to splice the corresponding wires. Then you have the wiring by the battery that you will also have to splice corresponding wires.
Only advantages the 205 has engine wise is ecu, turbo, ic, and 550 inj. Don't know if the manifold is better or not. Doesn't have T-VIS ( I believe). CR is lower (8.5?).
So, if you are already going to upgrade to a ems and better turbo/ic, you're pretty much wasting your time/$$ with the 205 engine. If you just plan to swap it in and leave it pretty much stock, you're ~60hp stronger.
Trans has better (stronger) syncros, and depending who you talk to, better gearing.

Feel free to correct me if any of this is wrong.
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Postby illGT4 » Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:27 am

the 205 will fit just fine. (mechanically)

What to be worried about is if you go 3rd gen; is to get all the sensor in the engine bay that you will need. The ignitor, MAP, etc..

if you are getting a clip, than you should get everything IF it is complete.

If the clip is from a RHD 205, you'll need to extend the wiring harness to be installed into a LHD 185.

If it were me, and I wanted a 3rd gen clip, i'd extend the wiring harness and use EVERYTHING from the clip.. The ECU, sensors, etc..

It will bolt up fine. Small things such as the mech vs. elec. speedo gear is different.. but you just keep the 185 gear.

MONEY wise.. I don't know what you are paying for a 3rd gen clip. If you don't need/want the gearbox and other NON engine related parts (brakes , front suspension which I don't believe would fit being super strut) then you will save money getting a 2nd gen 3SGTE.

For instance. .if your 3rd gen clip is running you $3000US.. and you can get a 2nd gen for $1000..

It's all in what you need. Tell us Exactly what you are wanting to do, and what is currently not meeting your needs; and we'll do our best to give you an opinion.
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Postby LechacZ » Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:08 am

Hey, if u have any questions feel free to PM me anytime!
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