600 hp TMIC?

Q&A regarding engines, turbos, and intercoolers and power upgrades

Re: 600 hp TMIC?

Postby TheNubkins » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:58 pm

I know first hand the ST185RC WTA core cannot support that power level. Here's a quote from another thread I just contributed to. I had my car on the dyno last night troublshooting.

TheNubkins wrote:Another thing we noticed was the ST185RC intercooler efficiency. The pressure before the intercooler was 23psi at times, whereas the pressure after the intercooler(manifold intake pressure) was 19psi. That's a 4psi pressure drop. As well we came to the conclusion the intercooler core itself is good for the odd street pull here and there, but for track use it would start to cause problems. Ordinarily the intake air temp was between 20-30degrees C. After two good hard pulls it would jump up to 40-50degrees C and drop about 1 degree C every second or two. When we continued to push it hard we saw intake temps of 80degrees C. Mind you I never intend on pushing my car that hard for that long, but it is apparent the intercooler is not a great match for the turbo in race situations.


This is information I saw with my own eyes just yesterday and is not speculation or rumors. I also have a pretty large heat exchanger up front. The thing is it's just too much hot air for the core to cool fast enough on repeated pulls. I don't think Toyota ever really intended for people to be running huge hp numbers using this intercooler. I'd say comfortably on the extreme end of things I wouldn't want to push any more than 240-250whp through this thing, and probably no more than 200-225whp with constant race use/hard driving.
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Postby TRDcelica90 » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:58 am

Was that with the pump constantly running??

The other thing is that when your on a dyno the fan they put infront ive been told is about the equevelant of 100km/h, the power and strain you put on your engine wouldve raised the temp a whole lot and on a road could've been as fast as 200km/h but your only getting the cold air of 100km/h. which is a fair lot less cold air going through your motor and through your HE.. plus your getting more heatshock.

600+hp is riduclous though lol.. im aiming for what TTE were pulling on the rally car 346HP if i remember corectly, surely thats enough lol..

Very interesting though. Thanks for the info let me know nubkins
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Postby TheNubkins » Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:02 pm

Yup, I have my coolant pump on constantly. I have my ST185RC core thermal barrier coated on the exterior to try and isolate it from the engine bay heat.

The tuner though has a very nice new STI and it has an upgraded top mount a/a unit that is good for 600hp(wheel or crank I'm not sure) so it is possible to get one made up for our cars.

Was the 346HP on the TTE Rally cars measured at the wheels, or at the crank?

I personally love the look of the RC intercooler and it does a decent job considering the power I'm putting down.
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Postby ChrisD » Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:18 pm

edit
Last edited by ChrisD on Thu May 06, 2010 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Corey » Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:36 pm

Was the 346HP on the TTE Rally cars measured at the wheels, or at the crank?


I thought the TTE cars were limited to 300bhp, but had a great deal more torque.
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Postby Hotrodhendrix » Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:47 pm

There are good reasons why people upgrade to a FMIC. Cheaper, easier, saves room, option of RC hood and bumper (reduced engine bay temps), easy to find parts, and the list goes on.

I found an Apexi FMIC on craigslist for my VR4 (500-550hp) and purchased an off brand for the alltrac which was also on craigsilst. The off brand works fine for the 400hp im shooting for but anything above that she will require a better core.
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Postby TRDcelica90 » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:23 pm

Corey Darling wrote:
Was the 346HP on the TTE Rally cars measured at the wheels, or at the crank?


I thought the TTE cars were limited to 300bhp, but had a great deal more torque.


thats also what i thought, i got that from the rally giants book which i just rechecked and said the "FIA tried to apply a nominal 300bhp, the press release that the organisers from the Catalunya rally released qouted that the GT-Four was producing 365bhp, Escort cosworth 355bhp, lancer 385bhp and subi 365bhp.."

Also yes the 205 wta is 7 row which is the same as the TTE rally car.. so that should make a considerable diff and has larger outlet so naturally can handle bigger numbers
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Re: 600 hp TMIC?

Postby BriinumsBo » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:41 pm

i blew my engine and probably going for a rev3 swap with wta. I have ARC TMIC cooler.
If you`re interested , shoot me a fair offer.
The core is used but 100% functional, some fins bent but really no more than 1-2% of the core.
I live in Latvia (Europe) so shipping will be about 50-60 bucks..
The inner designs of the core and fins are awesome!

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front design
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back design
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Re: 600 hp TMIC?

Postby Mafix » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:37 pm

IStalkgt4s wrote:I have a 90 st185 and I'm getting ready for the big build, I'm shooting for 500-600 hp, but I wanna stay top mount if possible, I have the rc WTA and was told they can support up to about 550hp...
(The parts I have already.)

Eagle h beam rods
hks valve springs
supertech +1mm valves
aem water/meth injection
fidanza lw flywheel arp bolts
Aussie DP
hks silent power exhuast

(Parts I don't have that I'm working on)
pistons
850cc Injectors
Fuel rail
Valve guides
Cam gears
272 or 280 Cams
Tuning belt
hks Fuel cut defender
hks Speed defender
Aem ecu
Radiator 
Fuel cell
hoses
low temp Thermostat
Fuel pressure regulator
255 Fuel pump 
Pulleys
external Waste gate
Exhaust manifold
Engine mounts
Clutch 
Upgraded turbo.
Intake manifold
Throttle body

I know it's a big list... And that's just for the engine, my question to everyone is with the parts I don't have, what's my best option for accomplising my goal, etc. turbo, cam set up, exhaust and intake manifolds,throttle body,fuel rail, you get the idea. And for the rest of the stuff such as engine mounts, where could I find some good after market ones? And for a good replacemnt radiator, any brands? Or specs I should go with? I'm kinda over my head with trying to build this engine, never built a Toyota engine, only Honda, and that's like a belly button, everyone has one so it's not very hard, but I want a beast that will feast on the weak. So any help is greatly appricated. :shoots:


i suppose i should add my 2 cents in here.
850cc not enough
you look like you have bundled a bunch of parts in hoping to throw together a great motor. in truth this is not the case. you don't need an fcd, speed defender with a stand alone unit. 1 255 pump for those power levels is pushing it. pulleys? really? read more. why a fuel cell? is your gas tank leaking? upgraded turbo? more like different new turbo. which manifold? what material manifold? which outlet flange? it's a great thing to have dreams but you have much learning to do first. please don't take this the wrong way. for 500 crank HP you'll need lots more than you think and lots less than you have listed. we are all here to help and several of us run high HP motors.
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Re: 600 hp TMIC?

Postby IStalkgt4s » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:13 pm

Hence why I posted this in the first place, to get input, when I say upgraded turbo, I was implying new turbo. Wasn't trying to make power on the ct26 on there... But when my build starts I'll have it all posted on here, the majority of it will be done outta my brothers ship. So well see how it goes.
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Re: 600 hp TMIC?

Postby Mafix » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:11 pm

brothers ship? lol.
be sure and have the block tested and not punched more than 20 over. 2nd gen block = cracking issues.
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Re: 600 hp TMIC?

Postby IStalkgt4s » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:26 pm

Lol brothers SHOP... Stupid iPhone... But I'm thinking of going with a 98 5fse block and make it a stroker... I was thinking of what I would have to do to make it a 2.4, possibly resleeving it. Or using a 2az-fe... Has anyone done that? Or has anyone heard of it being done?
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Re: 600 hp TMIC?

Postby Mafix » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:28 pm

nobody i know of yet.
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Re: 600 hp TMIC?

Postby IStalkgt4s » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:43 pm

Really I guess it just comes down Depends on the stoke and bore of the block an that I don't know.... I just had that idea last night.do you think it's possible in your opinion?
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Re: 600 hp TMIC?

Postby Mafix » Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:30 pm

anything is possible with enough money.
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