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Q&A regarding engines, turbos, and intercoolers and power upgrades
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intercooler life line

Tue May 01, 2012 11:48 pm

just to help you new guys out. here is a list of stock toyota celica intercoolers, in order of how good they are (stock). worst - best.
and the newest request for fixes is being added

WORST

st185 air to air top mount
high density design, all black with a trim ring that has a black grill on it
fix: fmic, 185rc, 205, arc (but you might as well go fmic at that point)

st215 air to air top mount
high density design, all black with a giant toyota logo on it's grill/cover
fix: fmic

st165 water to air top mount with half size heat exchanger
low density design, the smallest of the wta cores, about a 2.25 inch outlet
fix: upgrade heat exchanger and add fan*, constant run mod*, fmic, 185rc, 205

st185rc/cs water to air top mount with half size heat exchanger
low density design, black center with a grey outer
fix: upgrade heat exchanger and add fan*, constant run mod*, fmic, 205

st205 water to air top mount with full size heat exchanger
low density design, all black, about a 2.75 inch outlet
fix: add fan*, constant run mod*, fmic

BEST
* = should be done first



post any corrections please
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Re: intercooler life line

Wed May 02, 2012 2:31 am

Now how can the weak links of each be improved upon, and where do they hit their limits?

Re: intercooler life line

Wed May 02, 2012 2:27 pm

very nice info for beginners Mafix thank you :)
now my question:
for a alltrac with ATA intercooler;
is there any different to install between the ST205 WTA and ST185RC WTA?
what is needed for this upgrade? it has got so many topics but all confused :shrug:

Re: intercooler life line

Wed May 02, 2012 4:13 pm

RoAdbOy wrote:very nice info for beginners Mafix thank you :)
now my question:
for a alltrac with ATA intercooler;
is there any different to install between the ST205 WTA and ST185RC WTA?
what is needed for this upgrade? it has got so many topics but all confused :shrug:
The ST205 has
-different mounting locations
-slightly different Inlet/Outlet alignment
-slightly larger outlet
-one extra 'row' (deeper)
-a port for the factory BOV/BPV near the inlet.

There are thread detailing the process to install an ST205 intercooler on a gen1/gen2 3s-gte...

-Charlie

Re: intercooler life line

Wed May 02, 2012 5:28 pm

:) thanks for the infos :wink:

Re: intercooler life line

Wed May 02, 2012 6:04 pm

Mafix, I think your post would benefit greatly if you added some formatting and spacing to the information. One giant block of information is much harder to read / adsorb / pick out the pertinent parts.

Good info!

-Towels
Last edited by WarTowels on Thu May 03, 2012 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: intercooler life line

Thu May 03, 2012 1:11 am

So where would the ARC top mount end up on the list?

Re: intercooler life line

Thu May 03, 2012 2:27 pm

Not sure I am feeling the love for the ST165 WTA unit. I might put this as the worst, I definitely wouldnt put one on a ST185 :) . You are
missing two intercoolers (and I own both of them). The Bay Area AT ATA and probably the best
WTA the actual TTE unit used on the rally cars (not sure what the Corolla used but ST185 had
a CS type with a new core and a plug in place of the temp sensor).

Re: intercooler life line

Thu May 03, 2012 7:13 pm

I believe this list is intended as a quick comparison between OEM factory intercoolers. Aftermarket opens up many more options and would greatly complicate comparing between every one of them, and so would probably be better served as a separate thread.

Re: intercooler life line

Thu May 03, 2012 8:04 pm

+1

Think this is a good starting point for trying to figure out your upgrade path and importance/priority. For me since I dont have A2A, going side feed can wait a bit.

Re: intercooler life line

Fri May 04, 2012 3:59 pm

I like how the upgrade for any is FMIC. haha. True but it will all depend on what you want to push as to how far you want to go. I wish I would have just kept my st185 W/A setup with upgraded heat exchanger and fan.

~James

Re: intercooler life line

Fri May 04, 2012 4:23 pm

I thought the constant run mod was actually shown to decrease the effectiveness? It would also be good to know what the true limits of these are, as I remember reading something about the RC/CS system being good to ~600HP with a bigger exchanger.

And don't forget that the RC/CS can have the sprayer hookerd up as well, that should help a bit.

Re: intercooler life line

Wed May 09, 2012 4:17 pm

there are too many variables to post limits. FMIC is a proven upgrade to any of the above units, until you promote ice or sub zero temperature things (usually limited to drag cars).

Re: intercooler life line

Wed May 09, 2012 4:21 pm

- Intercooler - While every stock intercooler has room for improvement, the general rule of thumb on intercoolers are:
For street applications you'll want to go air to air (ATA), typically by means of a front mounted intercooler (FMIC). Stay away from top mount air to air intercoolers (grills) also noted as TMICs. They are never good. on any car from any manufacturer. Most cars with side mount air to air intercoolers also suffer from effeciency issues. Also known as SMICs.
For race applications typically you'll want to go water to air (WTA), and possibly make it easily removable for freezing.
If you go air to air some notes for you:
Bigger is not always better. Core sizing has a huge effect on turbo lag. Now you never want to be too small, then you'll heat soak and have a useless intercooler and knock your motor to pieces. This is especially important if you have a top mounted intercooler (TMIC). Small cooler fans are usually a good idea to invest in on all ATA intercoolers. Fans help promote airflow which means you'll start cooling faster. With TMICs you'll need to sheild it and run a large scoop on the hood. With FMICs you'll want to make sure you maximize the air that can pass through it. Colder air is denser and thus harder to move. If you have a hot spot on the intercooler, i.e. blocked by the bumper or hood, the air will pass through there more than the cooler side. This is not a problem typically found on WTA coolers. There are also 2 different style cores now. Both low density and high density. Most stock ATA intercoolers are high density.
If you go water to air:
Bigger is typically better, but more important is the number of cores in your cooler and your heat exchanger. More cores in the cooler mean more surface area for heat transfer. A larger heat exchanger means more surface area for the coolant to be cooled. High flow water pumps and constant run modifications are always good to have as well. And again on the heat exchanger, a small cooling fan to help promote airflow is a good idea. Another peice of the system is the coolant. You should always try to use as little antifreeze as possible. The best mixture you can use would be straight water with some water wetter or the like. Make sure the heat exchanger is getting plenty of air and try not to block it with lights or body kits.

Re: intercooler life line

Wed May 09, 2012 4:26 pm

BoostedBlueToyotas wrote:Not sure I am feeling the love for the ST165 WTA unit. I might put this as the worst, I definitely wouldnt put one on a ST185 :) . You are
missing two intercoolers (and I own both of them). The Bay Area AT ATA and probably the best
WTA the actual TTE unit used on the rally cars (not sure what the Corolla used but ST185 had
a CS type with a new core and a plug in place of the temp sensor).

how many tte intercoolers exsist tim? that ends that point. the ONLY tmic i'd put better (and i dare to see a dyno sheet that proves otherwise) is the arc (which may as well be bayarea as well, they are so damn similar). and YOU haven't owned a 165 to my knowledge. so that mutes your first point all together. sorry bud.
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