Red Top beams into a 165 all-trac

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nw94rs

New member
I appreciate everyone's ideas and thoughts on making 180hp out of an N/A alltrac. I have replied with questions to everyone's comments. I've asked a few times now what's a common weak point in the beams engine, & right now it sounds like the only issue is the wait time involved when you do break something. Which is somewhat common w/ the 3sgte (I've been waiting over a month for injector seals). I've researched every idea mentioned here & weighed them on cost/benefit/reliability. However the title of this thread is Beams into a Toyota alltrac, I am interested in knowing more about the Beams, as its performance out of the box is desirable on paper.

I have a back ground in building high strung N/A road racing Hondas & the 3s/5s sounds eerily similar to a common swap called the ls or b20vtec, which do have there place, but never in my experience last long in an actual racing environment. I'll always advise a novice/club level customer to purchase a fresh/new factory long block, make the motor breath better, manipulate the ecu & go have fun. I have customers still on their 1st motor w/ 100k miles of actual racing just adding oil. Now with the Toyota I'm trying to heed my own advice with a different marquee.

My beef w/ rally garage comes from his attitude in his post and several other posts regarding rally. I have been involved in North American rally and tsd's for a long time. It doesn't take a $30k dollar transmissions to have fun and be competitive in specific clubman classes.
 
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ALLensTRAC

New member
I only know of one weakness with the beams and its the same as the Caldina: the rods. Since this will be NA just get a low mileage engine and do the simple stuff to make it breathe and fart better. I for one want to see the beams in an alltrac just cuz it would be different(the whole reason I got an alltrac and not an mr2). Have you thought about the 1mz swap? Super cheap and reliable as all hell!

Just get the damn engine, put it in, run the shit out of it and post rally vids! We don't have rally anything on this giant beach I live on lol.
 
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fussellbug

New member
So I have decided to build my all-tracs for Open Light which is a class that allows 4wd car w/ out the use of Turbos, and has a max displacement of 2.6l.
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The displacement of the 1MZ would be too high for the class he wants to race.
 
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Mafix

New member
he was only trying to help. you are being rather defensive. open your mind up and just read. you don't have to respond or check everyones backround to take/or not take advise. nobody said you HAVE to do this and that. and as i read it it only states common facts.
 
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nw94rs

New member
Thank you for the replys. I appreciate all the ideas. I'd like to hear more about the 2az, would this long block mate to the alltrac drivetrain?
 
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nw94rs

New member
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/54227-the-rwd-2az-fe-thread/

Just spent some time reading up on the 2az, and this actually seems like a very good idea, I would still need to up the compression, but the price, displacement, and availability puts it at the top of my list. Just off of a quick Craigslist search I found a motor for $300.

I also read of people using the pistons from the 2az hybrid to up the compression to the 11:1 area.

I imagine the motor would be quite a bit lighter than the 3sgte as well with its all aluminum block & head. This motor was also available in the Camry, Corrolla, matrix, tc, Xb, & xa. With the most desirable variant coming from the tc.

Thanks for the heads up Mafix, I think I'm going to pull the trigger on a blown up 2az and see how it all mates up.
 
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phattyduck

New member
nw94rs":8kb9sdvl said:
Thanks for the heads up Mafix, I think I'm going to pull the trigger on a blown up 2az and see how it all mates up.
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We all want pics. :D

I think the biggest worry will be clearance at the back of the block. I would imagine an aluminum block might be thicker or have deeper ribs back there. Custom transfer case brackets will also be necessary.

-Charlie
 
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l0ch0w

New member
You could do things the hard way and swap in something like a 4gr-fse... Would give you more power and torque than the stock turbo anyways :) And would fit within the rules...

Also, PM me, I can get you any part you want for your BEAMS motor when the time comes...
 
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ALLensTRAC

New member
Anything but the 4gr!!! That is the biggest piece of shit engine Toyota has ever built! I am rebuilding every single one from 06-11 under a customer service program. They are only good for boat anchors trust me.

Allen
 
CMS-GT4

CMS-GT4

Active member
I'll be following this thread. I had considered going this route, then boosting the engine. I just wanted to keep things simple at the time. Still a chance this engine could end up in my car someday.
 
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ZeroDrift

New member
Mafix":2qachb9o said:
agreed and yes it is a peice of shit. even my tuner won't touch them.
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The 1ZM-FE?

As far as overall potential of the 2AZ vs the 3SGTE? Isn't the 2AZ tough/expensive to build power out of?
 
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nw94rs

New member
I think the 2az will be cheaper to modify than the 3sgte. There are quite a few high powered 2az's in the US, I know Chris Rado has cracked the 1000hp and Fred Aasbo just made 700+ with his 2az. The biggest plus for me is the displacement and the price/availability of the motors. And it's just newer tech, the 3s will always be based around an 80's way of doing things. My high Hp 3s buddies have never had good luck with the 3s blocks.

The aftermarket support in my opinion out weighs the 3s, and I think that has to do with how new the motor is and how many cars the motor comes in.

I've read of a few +cam/piston engines making 230hp, which is more than my turbo 3s is making, & I have plenty of fun with that thing. The biggest hurtle for me (assuming everything mates) will be the intake manifold. There's a guy who has adapted the itb's from a 20 valve to his 2az...hmmm

If you guys are interested in following this build I'll try and keep my project thread up to date. This motor will be going in my white 165, I'm going to keep my red car turbo 3s.

http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=42819
 
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weapon5

New member
The beams will bolt up to the st205 or any 3sgte awd tranny, cause i did it and it'll sit nicely in your car cause I've done it, the only thing is my swap was never complete cause i ran out of funds and decided to go back to the 3sgte while i parted out the beams (harness was too hard to track) i did figure out later that if you can find a 1zz harness and repin it, than it'll work even a 2zzge harness. Repinning those harness will be alot cheaper than finding a 3s beams harness. ;) hopes this help you, can't wait to see someone else do this :D
 
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