coolant temp. sensor, water temp sensor

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coolant temp. sensor, water temp sensor

Postby timdog1720 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:50 pm

On my Caldina ST-215 engine, I have on there the original water temperature sensor which gives me a good signal out (meaning the gauge on the cluster says its just below middle when warmed up, NORMAL) My problem with my car is that it burns incredible amounts of gas. one of the symptoms of that is a bad water temp sensor many say.

So I go ahead and three times I changed the sensor to one i purchased online, auto-zone, and pep-boys. Every time I place the new one in my gauge starts off cold then spikes all the up to HOT and seems to past it lol. I checked the sensor for the ST-215 is: DENSO 89422‑16010 which is the same used in North American built cars in:

06/2003-07/2005 TOYOTA ECHO NCP13 84-04: ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM
04/2003-11/2006 SCION XB NCP31 84-04: ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM
01/2001-10/2005 TOYOTA YARIS SCP1*, NLP10 84-04: ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM
04/2003-11/2006 SCION XA NCP61 84-04: ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM
09/1994-06/1999 TOYOTA TERCEL EL53 84-04: ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM
08/1999-10/2005 TOYOTA ECHO NCP12 84-04: ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM
08/1995-06/1999 TOYOTA PASEO EL54 84-04: ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM
08/1997-12/2001 TOYOTA COROLLA ZZE110 84-04: ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM
07/2001-01/2006 TOYOTA CAMRY ACV30,MCV3* 84-04: ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM
07/2001-12/2005 TOYOTA CAMRY ACV30,MCV3* 84-04: ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM
06/1998-11/2002 TOYOTA SOLARA ACV20,MCV20,SXV20 84-04: ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM

Now every time I place the original sensor back the gauge stays in the normal range. What does this mean? I'm replacing it with the correct part but all the other ones tell me I'm running hot at idle.

PS: No the engine doesn't seem hot. It seems as if it is as hot as any other engine when touching it, and also when I put the replacement sensor in and rev the engine, it goes past hot but if you let it idle the needle goes to about 80 -90% up the gauge.

Thanks Guys always for your help
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Re: coolant temp. sensor, water temp sensor

Postby celicast184 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:24 am

this might not be the same sensor or the wiring must be different from the caldina sensor. try sensors for 99 camry etc as toyota like to share sensors within the same year range. jus make sure its the same plug style.

your burning too much fuel, how do you know that you are? suggest to not have a heavy foot?? lols, jk!!
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Re: coolant temp. sensor, water temp sensor

Postby celicast184 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:29 am

also, you are running the caldina in a 94 celica. one of the things about st215 is that it also runs a fuel resistor pack to run the fuel pump in two different speeds. the 94 celica runs the pump at full power at all times. this can also contribute to your fuel consumption..
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Re: coolant temp. sensor, water temp sensor

Postby phattyduck » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:14 pm

Which thing are you talking about?

There is a water temp SENSOR = for the ECU, two wire sensor

There is a water temp SENDER = for the gauge cluster, one wire sender

One does not affect the other.

-Charlie
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'99 4Runner SR5 4WD 5VZ-FE
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Re: coolant temp. sensor, water temp sensor

Postby timdog1720 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:10 pm

no you guy are kinda focused on 1-3 generation 3sgte... the 4th uses a 3 pin connector same for both ecu and the cluster
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Re: coolant temp. sensor, water temp sensor

Postby timdog1720 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:43 pm

celicast184 wrote:also, you are running the caldina in a 94 celica. one of the things about st215 is that it also runs a fuel resistor pack to run the fuel pump in two different speeds. the 94 celica runs the pump at full power at all times. this can also contribute to your fuel consumption..



That's the first on the the resistor pack thing and I confirmed it with other swappers they say they never never seen any resistor packs or anything to that fact... also I checked with Cam from Tweak Performance he says not on the ST-215 that he's seen....
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Re: coolant temp. sensor, water temp sensor

Postby celicast184 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:18 am

i am not talking about 1-3gen 3s. the 4gen has only one sensor on the water neck. it supplies gauge reading and signal to ecu and is a 3pin sensor with a ground, 5v source, signal wire. there is fuel resistor on there. if your harness is still the original, youll see a resistor pack with two wires. also there is a relay on the engine harness with 4 wire pin. funny thing is that the relay has a label printed on it saying "fan relay". if you have the engine wire diagram, follow pin fpr and it will lead you to the rest of it. i know this for a fact as i wired my buddys st215 into his mr2 and i had to figure it out. also wired it into my 1991 celica gts, but disreguarded it because the celica has no resistor pack so it runs at full power.
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Re: coolant temp. sensor, water temp sensor

Postby phattyduck » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:49 pm

timdog1720 wrote:no you guy are kinda focused on 1-3 generation 3sgte... the 4th uses a 3 pin connector same for both ecu and the cluster
Your cluster still needs to use the original style sender unless you are using a compatible cluster. That will fix the gauge problem. Then you just need to verify the wiring and specs for the new (and old...) sensors. You can use the diagnostic info from any of those cars listed above if you can't find the info specifically for the ST215.

-Charlie
'89 Camry LE Alltrac 3S-GTE - SV25/ST205 hybrid
'99 4Runner SR5 4WD 5VZ-FE
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Re: coolant temp. sensor, water temp sensor

Postby timdog1720 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:59 pm

celicast184 wrote:i am not talking about 1-3gen 3s. the 4gen has only one sensor on the water neck. it supplies gauge reading and signal to ecu and is a 3pin sensor with a ground, 5v source, signal wire. there is fuel resistor on there. if your harness is still the original, youll see a resistor pack with two wires. also there is a relay on the engine harness with 4 wire pin. funny thing is that the relay has a label printed on it saying "fan relay". if you have the engine wire diagram, follow pin fpr and it will lead you to the rest of it. i know this for a fact as i wired my buddys st215 into his mr2 and i had to figure it out. also wired it into my 1991 celica gts, but disreguarded it because the celica has no resistor pack so it runs at full power.



OK TO BE HONEST I'M GETTING A LITTLE CONFUSED LOL...

Here's the thing I think you agreeing on the fact there is only one sensor as opposed to two. but your saying there is a fuel resistor pack on the water temp. sensor wire?

also I have an adjustable Fuel pressure regulator on the engine, wouldn't that control the amount of fuel in the system regardless if the fuel pump is left to stay on at full power not seeing why it would make a difference .
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Re: coolant temp. sensor, water temp sensor

Postby timdog1720 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:41 am

bump
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Re: coolant temp. sensor, water temp sensor

Postby celicast184 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:21 pm

first off, the water neck only has one sensor that supply cluster reading and ecu signal.

secoundly, you said that you have not heard of the caldina 3sgte running on fuel resistor pack. im justifying that it does. i think this is the issue with a lot swaps out there is that they do not integrate this into our wiring so most st215 swaps always run with code 78 stored into the ecu. it does not trigger a check engine light. also, fpr will work jus fine, but codes stored in ecu is usually causes ecu to run differently.
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Re: coolant temp. sensor, water temp sensor

Postby timdog1720 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:33 am

celicast184 wrote:first off, the water neck only has one sensor that supply cluster reading and ecu signal.

secoundly, you said that you have not heard of the caldina 3sgte running on fuel resistor pack. im justifying that it does. i think this is the issue with a lot swaps out there is that they do not integrate this into our wiring so most st215 swaps always run with code 78 stored into the ecu. it does not trigger a check engine light. also, fpr will work jus fine, but codes stored in ecu is usually causes ecu to run differently.



ok yes Im not sure if its 78 but im almost positive its 78 code i get but never found out what that is cause there is none except for a speed sensor problem but that's in the abs code area .. yo honest I would love to talk over the phone to go into details on how to find out if the guy who did my wire, placed the resister in line when he integrated my original harness and caldina harness and how if he didnt i can go about putting it in...
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Re: coolant temp. sensor, water temp sensor

Postby celicast184 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:17 am

the reason i believe that code 78 has to be fuel resistor is because i did the swap into my buddys mr2. i integrated this into it as the mr2 also runs on fuel resistor pack. one thing i can note about this is that his car runs with no error codes. i thought i drive it around town for a week to see if the code appears and nope.. nada.. zipp... i know for a fact that my st215 swap has this code and i have done research on this to see what the code is. the code chart that was provided by speedricer here does not include this code within the chart. im thinking that other toyota cars within this year(1999) should share the same codes. i searched this also and found that the code 78 for camrys are misfire codes iirc. i dont believe this is correct for the caldina has it does not misfire. also, i dont have the resistor wired up in my swap as gts and non alltrac celicas didnt come equipped with this feature. now if you look at the schematic, if you have access to one, circuit opening relay runs power to the fuel pump relay. on the relay it has 4 pins.
pin B2 (wire blue/black) is power coming from circuit opening relay.
pin +B (wire blue/black) runs to the fuel pump resistor then the pump itself - low speed and is default or powered when circuit opening relay is on.
pin FP (wire blue/red) is the full power output to the fuel pump
pin FPR (black/red - pin b-7 on ecu side) runs to the ecu, since low speed is default, ecu grounds this pin to run high speed.
in this case, pin FPR on the ecu is left untouched or open due to the fact that the fwd celica has its own circuit for the fuel pump. thats why i believe this is the code as everything else checks out without a problem. i believe that if the ecu does not see a 12v input when grounded, it will run differently.

As for speed sensor, for the caldina, it is on the abs side of the ecu but thats a different ecu aside from the engine ecu. now, if you have your speed pin (caldina ecu side c-22 - SPD) hooked up, to (SPD on celica fwd side) then your ecu is reading speed through your cluster, which is the same for most celicas(alltrac or not.) You will hit speed cut at 120mph which is setup for jdm cars.

i hope this helps....
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Re: coolant temp. sensor, water temp sensor

Postby celicast184 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:27 am

hit me up anytime, 9098350375, if i dont pick up, txt me instead. i would like to get to the bottom of this issue too.
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Re: coolant temp. sensor, water temp sensor

Postby timdog1720 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:36 am

celicast184 wrote:hit me up anytime, 9098350375, if i dont pick up, txt me instead. i would like to get to the bottom of this issue too.


ok kewl
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