Water Meth injection with W2A IC?!

Q&A regarding engines, turbos, and intercoolers and power upgrades

Water Meth injection with W2A IC?!

Postby zero06 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:34 am

Has anyone done a water/meth injection with any of the stock w2a IC setups?

I have an RC intercooler with upgraded pump and heat exchanger that I would like to add water meth injection to. but the stock rubber coupler means I would have to get creative with injector placement.
Members don't see the above ad. Register now - it's free!
1991 White st185 eternal project
2006 Silver Metallic RX8 6 Speed Daily (until alltrac is done if ever)
1976 Copper Metallic Ford Gran Torino Restomod Muscle-Boat
zero06
Club Member
 
Posts: 562
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 3:47 pm
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Re: Water Meth injection with W2A IC?!

Postby underscore » Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:20 am

I was planning on drilling and tapping through a bolt to mount the injector into the coupler.
★ 1991 GTFour RC ~ "Rebel Scum" ★
It's for sale! http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=52181
Build thread http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=44216
underscore
GTFour God
 
Posts: 3791
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:29 pm
Location: Kelowna, BC

Re: Water Meth injection with W2A IC?!

Postby gearhead313 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:51 pm

why not take out the cold start injector and use that port??
ST165 counter:
#2597 - fail
#3193 - fail
#xxxx - sold
#4598 - sold to Canada eh
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/gearhead313/turbosticker.jpg[/img]
User avatar
gearhead313
Established Member
 
Posts: 1358
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:17 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

1988 Toyota Celica

Re: Water Meth injection with W2A IC?!

Postby athousandleaves » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:11 am

gearhead313 wrote:why not take out the cold start injector and use that port??


+1
1992 Red GT-FOUR RC 626•1800
Image
1992 White turbo4WD
User avatar
athousandleaves
Established Member
 
Posts: 1288
Images: 0
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Water Meth injection with W2A IC?!

Postby underscore » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:40 am

Ideally the injector is supposed to go after the IC but before the TB.
★ 1991 GTFour RC ~ "Rebel Scum" ★
It's for sale! http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=52181
Build thread http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=44216
underscore
GTFour God
 
Posts: 3791
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:29 pm
Location: Kelowna, BC

Re: Water Meth injection with W2A IC?!

Postby klue » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:46 am

underscore wrote:Ideally the injector is supposed to go after the IC but before the TB.


yes, you dont want a bunch of water dumping right into your manifold if you snap the throttle closed quickly

When i was using a RC wta, I extended the outlet of the intercooler so it fit into the TB, and just tapped the injector right there
facebook.com/xiiimotorsports
#xiiimotorsports ON instagram
User avatar
klue
GTFour God
 
Posts: 3893
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:47 pm
Location: Greater Toronto Area

Re: Water Meth injection with W2A IC?!

Postby athousandleaves » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:55 am

You're not really dumping a ton of water in there, it should be a very fine mist.

The point isn't to get water/meth into the cylinders but to cool intake air temps.

Some folks argue that even putting the sprayer before the turbo isn't harmful... :shrug:
1992 Red GT-FOUR RC 626•1800
Image
1992 White turbo4WD
User avatar
athousandleaves
Established Member
 
Posts: 1288
Images: 0
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Water Meth injection with W2A IC?!

Postby underscore » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:20 am

but then you have it hitting the turbo and your intercooler. For a variety of reasons I don't see why you would want it pre-intercooler.
★ 1991 GTFour RC ~ "Rebel Scum" ★
It's for sale! http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=52181
Build thread http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=44216
underscore
GTFour God
 
Posts: 3791
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:29 pm
Location: Kelowna, BC

Re: Water Meth injection with W2A IC?!

Postby athousandleaves » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:11 am

In most real world situations the air is hot enough coming off the asphalt that the water and meth have already vaporized before meeting the turbo and you are compressing air that is already drastically cooler so its isothermal rather than adiabadic and you end up putting less strain on the blades. I've seen setups like this even ditch the intercooler all together and maintain power and intake temps in a healthy range.
Post turbo water injection is what you need if you're trying to mitigate detonation or do some crazy fuel economy experiments but having cooler air in the first place goes a long way and keeps the turbo much more healthy.

Properly setting up the water injection so it goes on at a specific %throttle or as a progressive spray helps from anything getting rusty also as you can anticipate that any remaining water will evaporate when at idle/cool down.

If you want to get very involved with this you can even inject water into the exhaust to cool the pipes and change the effective A/R of the turbo from the steam generated however this is something that requires some very expensive gear and time to setup properly. :twisted:

I just sorta like the cold start injector placement as its minimal work but really one should be going before the turbo if they want true power gains from water injection.
Last edited by athousandleaves on Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1992 Red GT-FOUR RC 626•1800
Image
1992 White turbo4WD
User avatar
athousandleaves
Established Member
 
Posts: 1288
Images: 0
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Water Meth injection with W2A IC?!

Postby MXP_57 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:29 am

It all depends on what your goals are. The magic will take place at the place where your water evaporates as that's where it will absorb heat. So:

If you want to prevent detonation: inject water as close to your cylinders as possible so it make the combustion slower and more stable while the water evaporates inside the cylinders. (ideally individual port water injection)

If you want to cool the intake temps for power: inject as far from the cylinder as possible so the water can all be evaporated before the cooled down air inters your cylinders.

If you want to make your turbo flow more air and reduce intake temps: inject before the turbo so it evaporates inside the turbo while the air expands during compression like "athousandsleaves" said.

Keep in mind you can inject so much water before the air is saturated in humidity. So make the right choices for your need.

You always want to inject the finest mist possible.

And also the more bends and obstacles to your air flow, the more the WI will become inefficient and it can pool in your IC and turn your intercooler into a heater.

Also inject water for cooling, and meth for making more power (raising octane).

I run no intercooler, E85, and pre/post water injection. no meth.
CEIKA Demo car 1987 ST165 JDM 1000kg/700hp http://ceikaperformance.com
MXP_57
Club Member
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:26 am
Location: Auriol, FR

Re: Water Meth injection with W2A IC?!

Postby cgtdream » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:18 pm

You can deffo do water/meth injection with our stock WTA setups. On my 205, i installed the injector in the rubber piece that connects the TB to the Intercooler. And no worries about water pooling up anywhere, as the water/meth dosent spray until it senses positive vacuum pressure, and usually at whatever bar is set it at (currently 1.1 bar)
cgtdream
Club Member
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:41 pm

Re: Water Meth injection with W2A IC?!

Postby klue » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:18 pm

OP is asking a specific question, not about dreaming up the most elaborate WI set up.
lets keep it real and helpful
facebook.com/xiiimotorsports
#xiiimotorsports ON instagram
User avatar
klue
GTFour God
 
Posts: 3893
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:47 pm
Location: Greater Toronto Area

Re: Water Meth injection with W2A IC?!

Postby athousandleaves » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:22 pm

He said he had to get creative, so we got creative. :P
1992 Red GT-FOUR RC 626•1800
Image
1992 White turbo4WD
User avatar
athousandleaves
Established Member
 
Posts: 1288
Images: 0
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Water Meth injection with W2A IC?!

Postby cgtdream » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:36 pm

athousandleaves wrote:He said he had to get creative, so we got creative. :P


Oh you so crazy :P :twisted:
cgtdream
Club Member
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:41 pm

Re: Water Meth injection with W2A IC?!

Postby athousandleaves » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:52 pm

Ultimately you have 4 options for WI and as others have stated its all about what you want to do with it.

1 - pre turbo - for cooler intake temps overall, detonation resistance, less effort for the turbo and intercooler
2 - pre throttlebody, post intercooler - for detonation resistance
3 - post throttlebody - for detonation resistance
4 - exhaust - modify A/R and cool exhaust

Its up to you!
1992 Red GT-FOUR RC 626•1800
Image
1992 White turbo4WD
User avatar
athousandleaves
Established Member
 
Posts: 1288
Images: 0
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Next

Return to Performance and Power

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron