600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Q&A regarding engines, turbos, and intercoolers and power upgrades

Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby lumbercis » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:29 am

CSAlltrac wrote:The ST165 tops out at 145, you're gonna need NOS.


"Two of the big bottles" :smokes:

RIP Paul Walker :(
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby GT4times2 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:47 am

CSAlltrac wrote:The ST165 tops out at 145, you're gonna need NOS.



Not speaking of speed, are you? A healthy ST165 with little mods will go over 150mph, very close to 160mph. I know. :wink:


To the OP.

Your question reminds me of a story involving a friend of mine, trying to build his MR2 to outperform his friend's 911 Turbo. Moral of the story will come in later. I'm sure half way through the story, you'll figure it out. I'll try to make it brief.

He was making almost 500whp with his fully built 2.2 liter MR2 Turbo. Before making all that power the car was a high 10 sec on street slicks. The car had enough power in my opinion to give the Porsche a good run for the money, if not beat it. Oh, how he wanted to dominate the situation. He ended up spending upward of $20k to build a 3.4 liter liter motor (from a 4Runner), just to make a few ponies more. Barely 40 whp, but more torque. However, he spent money to build a motor that required more to make similar power to the 3SGTE. It cost him dearly. Did he beat the Porsche? Hmm. The race never happened after he spent all that money on his V6. (I also told him not to go that route) He ended up selling the car for other reasons.

Moral of the story, is build a car for yourself. If you want 800whp, build a car like the Supra (get an IS300, SC300, GS300 and build power with one of these, or get a Supra if you have the money). People do it for a reason. It's more attainable, and less headaches go along with going that path. Almost any engine with enough money can make power. They're all air pumps. However it'll cost you. I'm not discouraging you.

If it's power you ultimately want, get something that makes that kind of power for less. However price of admission may be higher.

Tell you this, try going 3rd or 4th Gen 3SGTE swap, with minor mods, and you'll see. Your car will be a different beast. It won't beat a Supra, but with minor mods, you can have a nice 12 second Alltrac without breaking the bank. You can always ride shotgun in your friend's Supra, and beat him in your car (canyon carving).

All the other guys are right, if you really want to go that route.

Best of Luck.


One more thing, let the Alltrac remain an Alltrac. No need converting to RWD. Just get a RWD car to begin with.
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby knowitalls » Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:29 am

Thanks for the replies and the reality check. After reading through some of your build threads, I see now that my goals were set a little too high. When I hear about someone making big numbers I automatically want to do it also. I don't think of the sacrifice in drive ability, the hassle of GETTING race gas, the danger of all that HP, etc. What I want is a huge smile on my face when boost hits, waving bye bye to mister 911 turbo, messing with Evo and Subi owners from a dig, smoking annoying Harleys.

So how do you put a number on that? If anyone can point me to that thread about horsepower and cost, I'd appreciate it.
Maybe 500hp?

And no, I would never convert my all trac.

Sorry, it's been a LONG day.
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby ALLensTRAC » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:29 pm

UtahSleeper wrote:
yota 3.0 wrote:I have a 97 supra with 863rwhp and a 91 Alltrac with 600awhp and trust me when I say the amount of money you will spend trying to go Supra hunting is going to be a lot! you are better off just buying a supra.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have never been able to bang gears in my alltrac and not feel like im going to break everything. my supra on the other hand will take a beating all day!


just my opinion from owning both cars. Ditch the 3s awd setup and 1/2jz rwd convert it with a v160 or th400 trans, depends if u want 6spd or auto

let me know if you have any questions,
James


Please dont covert an alltrac lol. They are getting rarer with each accident and rice turn to scrap lol.

But the proper question, as just asked, is what are the bigger plans for this car? Is it your DD?


With all the ST165's being parted and basically rotting in place why not build one into a purpose built drag car? :shrug:
It would be awesome with the IRS out of a Supra/SC300 with a LSD and a 2j swap. I am 100% an Alltrac fanatic but it would be fun to build one for the purpose of beating on our big brother. Once my Trac is finished I plan to build a RWD 165 to compete in FL2K. Hell no one gives the guy in Australia with the TT1UZ crap for converting his 185. It will push the boundaries of our chassis and even give it some more exposure if seen drifting or beating on a Supra at the drag strip. Just my 2 cents :twisted:
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby CSAlltrac » Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:48 pm

GT4times2 wrote:
CSAlltrac wrote:The ST165 tops out at 145, you're gonna need NOS.



Not speaking of speed, are you? A healthy ST165 with little mods will go over 150mph, very close to 160mph. I know. :wink:

Ummmm, it was a quote referance from a movie. The OP is far from a serious poster so I saw a far from serious response fitting. :shrug:
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby knowitalls » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:50 pm

I seriously want to thank each of you for your responses, as most of them were answered thoroughly. I see now that I do not want to go with a stand alone ems at this time. So I guess that limits my hp goals to ~300. Does this sound about right?
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby yota 3.0 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:54 pm

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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby UtahSleeper » Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:40 pm

knowitalls wrote:I seriously want to thank each of you for your responses, as most of them were answered thoroughly. I see now that I do not want to go with a stand alone ems at this time. So I guess that limits my hp goals to ~300. Does this sound about right?


I think so. Why wouldn't you want to go standalone though? Power wise, it may be the most work, but gives you the most options for the future. Plus it removes the damn MAF! lol, hate that thing.

I think 300 is attainable on the stock electronics, but not sure.

Personally, I would evaluate how much work you want to put into it early.

I would start with the standards. Exhaust, straight intake with a good filter. Maybe the 3sge manifold and a front mount.

Plus, besides engine maintenance, I would address all driving maintenance first. Going fast will only destroy old parts faster lol.
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby UtahSleeper » Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:43 pm

ALLensTRAC wrote:
UtahSleeper wrote:
yota 3.0 wrote:I have a 97 supra with 863rwhp and a 91 Alltrac with 600awhp and trust me when I say the amount of money you will spend trying to go Supra hunting is going to be a lot! you are better off just buying a supra.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have never been able to bang gears in my alltrac and not feel like im going to break everything. my supra on the other hand will take a beating all day!


just my opinion from owning both cars. Ditch the 3s awd setup and 1/2jz rwd convert it with a v160 or th400 trans, depends if u want 6spd or auto

let me know if you have any questions,
James


Please dont covert an alltrac lol. They are getting rarer with each accident and rice turn to scrap lol.

But the proper question, as just asked, is what are the bigger plans for this car? Is it your DD?


With all the ST165's being parted and basically rotting in place why not build one into a purpose built drag car? :shrug:
It would be awesome with the IRS out of a Supra/SC300 with a LSD and a 2j swap. I am 100% an Alltrac fanatic but it would be fun to build one for the purpose of beating on our big brother. Once my Trac is finished I plan to build a RWD 165 to compete in FL2K. Hell no one gives the guy in Australia with the TT1UZ crap for converting his 185. It will push the boundaries of our chassis and even give it some more exposure if seen drifting or beating on a Supra at the drag strip. Just my 2 cents :twisted:


I would do that on one that's been wrecked or has major rust issues, but I couldn't do it to a salvageable car. Like the shell remains of a part out would be a great candidate for a RWD conversion.
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby Sifu » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:14 pm

Build your Alltrac with over $10,000 worth of upgrades, get super sticky tires and stage next to him. Pray that your AWD can launch off the line faster and hope he doesn't hook up. Laugh and gloat and retire because once he has gotten his launch and shift points in then you would be MUCH better off buying something that is more comparable to his vehicle and beating him in that.
There is no replacement for displacement. The amount of money dumped into making a 3sgte a reliable, high HP engine gets ridiculous whereas for the 2jz it just laughs and wants more.
My Money Pit has been amassing a good deal of power parts and I am just looking at 600hp for a goal. It isn't cheap or easy.
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby underscore » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:17 pm

lumbercis wrote:
CSAlltrac wrote:The ST165 tops out at 145, you're gonna need NOS.


"Two of the big bottles" :smokes:

RIP Paul Walker :(


And Harry - I need it by tonight.
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby Sifu » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:51 am

underscore wrote:
lumbercis wrote:
CSAlltrac wrote:The ST165 tops out at 145, you're gonna need NOS.


"Two of the big bottles" :smokes:

RIP Paul Walker :(


And Harry - I need it by tonight.

Amateurs don't use NOS. They blow themselves to pieces...
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby GT4times2 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:06 am

CSAlltrac wrote:
GT4times2 wrote:
CSAlltrac wrote:The ST165 tops out at 145, you're gonna need NOS.



Not speaking of speed, are you? A healthy ST165 with little mods will go over 150mph, very close to 160mph. I know. :wink:

Ummmm, it was a quote referance from a movie. The OP is far from a serious poster so I saw a far from serious response fitting. :shrug:


LOL. My bad. 8)

I wouldn't say he is not a serious poster. Maybe young and needs guidance. What we're here for.
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby GT4times2 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:17 am

knowitalls wrote:I seriously want to thank each of you for your responses, as most of them were answered thoroughly. I see now that I do not want to go with a stand alone ems at this time. So I guess that limits my hp goals to ~300. Does this sound about right?


For an All Trac, I think it's probably one of the best things to get. You can get a good unit for under a grand, that will remove the AFM, control boost etc. And for what you need, I doubt you'd have to upgrade it once you have it. Most units are light years ahead of the factory ECU, and should control whatever you throw at it.

To shut some skeptics, post pics of your car, along with what it has etc. What's your budget for mods btw? You never mentioned a budget, and when you get into a project, you must have a budget, that I'm sure you'll exceed. It always happens.

Good Luck.Take it a step at a time.
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby psipwrd » Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:23 am

knowitalls wrote:I seriously want to thank each of you for your responses, as most of them were answered thoroughly. I see now that I do not want to go with a stand alone ems at this time. So I guess that limits my hp goals to ~300. Does this sound about right?


300 seems common and doable, push the envelope a little. Shoot for 400 and be satisfied (even if temporarily) with a little less...

Sifu wrote:Build your Alltrac with over $10,000 worth of upgrades, get super sticky tires and stage next to him. Pray that your AWD can launch off the line faster and hope he doesn't hook up. Laugh and gloat and retire because once he has gotten his launch and shift points in then you would be MUCH better off buying something that is more comparable to his vehicle and beating him in that.
There is no replacement for displacement. The amount of money dumped into making a 3sgte a reliable, high HP engine gets ridiculous whereas for the 2jz it just laughs and wants more.
My Money Pit has been amassing a good deal of power parts and I am just looking at 600hp for a goal. It isn't cheap or easy.


I agree. With a good AWD launch, you def don't have to match his power.

+1 for the cobalt ss/sc twincharge route, i'd love to see that!
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