600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby yota 3.0 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:50 pm

psipwrd wrote:I agree. With a good AWD launch, you def don't have to match his power.


I haven't really looked into what kind of 60ft's guys are getting with their Alltrac's but with my Supra and a mild anti lag I get around 1.5. Not sure if the awd would still be an advantage.

OP - your new goal of 3-400hp is a lot more realistic. Good luck :)

~James
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby Sifu » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:38 pm

yota 3.0 wrote:
psipwrd wrote:I agree. With a good AWD launch, you def don't have to match his power.


I haven't really looked into what kind of 60ft's guys are getting with their Alltrac's but with my Supra and a mild anti lag I get around 1.5. Not sure if the awd would still be an advantage.

OP - your new goal of 3-400hp is a lot more realistic. Good luck :)

~James

I'm just implying that if he wants to beat an 800hp Supra then he will need to drop serious coin for his to get built by a proper shop in a short amount of time and would be to his advantage to legally drag race early hoping his opponent makes the key mistakes.
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby C-dubb » Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:28 pm

Looking back at trying to make power when I began and where I am with power now, stand alone EMS should have been done a lot earlier. One of the first things. Also, a wideband to watch your AFR's so you don't toast your internals. They say 14.7:1 at Idle and round 11:1 in boost. I've gotten rid of a lot of the issues I was having with the factory EMS. Things like your computer going in to safe mode and retarding timing when it even suspects knock, will drive you nuts. Also, get rid of that stupid f'ing AFM. Speed density is much easier to make power on. I use an AEM EMS It's Pnp and it took minimal work to install. Fuel is a big issue too..I tried to milk supra TT 550cc injectors and it wasn't worth it. I'd say upgrade to at least 800cc injectors for 300whp for safe AFR's Probably best to save money ahead of time and upgrade to top feed rail and injectors and a adjustable FPR.

But I agree with the other posters in here in regards to bolt on's first. Get air flowing through it better to see how it feels before you move forward. Intake, Exhaust, boost controller..your basic first things first.

Like they're saying, I don't think it's a good Idea to build an alltrac to battle with supra's and It's gonna take a lot of money and work to get to the power level you want so just be prepared for that.

I wish you luck and would love to see yet another all-trac making good power!!!!! Happy wrenching.

Just my $.02

P.s. As, to the AWD launch..I love the 2-step setup on my AEM...mmmmmmmmm. 5500rpm bouncing off the limiter and loading up boost. yummy.
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby lumbercis » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:18 pm

yota 3.0 wrote:
psipwrd wrote:I agree. With a good AWD launch, you def don't have to match his power.


I haven't really looked into what kind of 60ft's guys are getting with their Alltrac's but with my Supra and a mild anti lag I get around 1.5. Not sure if the awd would still be an advantage.

~James


I agree.. I think the only place an AWD setup would be an advantage vs a properly setup Supra or other RWD car is on the street where the surface itself and the kind of tires you can run will limit traction. On a track, a RWD car with slicks or sticky DRs will have the advantage and not have to deal with AWD drivetrain loss.
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby Mafix » Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:36 pm

drag racing a supra? you WILL lose. end of story. the supra can have 300hp and even if you had the same hp, you would lose
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby GT4_DRED » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:16 am

Mafix wrote:drag racing a supra? you WILL lose. end of story. the supra can have 300hp and even if you had the same hp, you would lose

I agree.. Now, on a roll to up top, its a totally different story :shoots:
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby knowitalls » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:26 am

Looking back at trying to make power when I began and where I am with power now, stand alone EMS should have been done a lot earlier. One of the first things.


Yes, maybe an EMS is the way to go. Power FC or AEM? Also, if AEM, will any stand alone AEM work with our cars? Or do I have to get a specific model?

But I agree with the other posters in here in regards to bolt on's first. Get air flowing through it better to see how it feels before you move forward. Intake, Exhaust, boost controller..your basic first things first.


I have turbo back exhaust, fmic, K&N filter, evc, walbro fuel pump, st185 turbo with a 16g compressor wheel, evc, and a tubular exhaust manifold.



P.s. As, to the AWD launch..I love the 2-step setup on my AEM...mmmmmmmmm. 5500rpm bouncing off the limiter and loading up boost. yummy.


What model AEM comes with that! Wow that sounds fun! Thats what I want! I wonder if Power FC has that option.
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby knowitalls » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:57 am

By the way, both the supra and the all trac are both street cars and always will be.
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby C-dubb » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:45 am

knowitalls wrote:
Looking back at trying to make power when I began and where I am with power now, stand alone EMS should have been done a lot earlier. One of the first things.


Yes, maybe an EMS is the way to go. Power FC or AEM? Also, if AEM, will any stand alone AEM work with our cars? Or do I have to get a specific model?

Its a model specific to your application. I have an AEM 1120 I believe. I will check the part number when I get home. But its an earlier model. I think they still make it.

But I agree with the other posters in here in regards to bolt on's first. Get air flowing through it better to see how it feels before you move forward. Intake, Exhaust, boost controller..your basic first things first.


I have turbo back exhaust, fmic, K&N filter, evc, walbro fuel pump, st185 turbo with a 16g compressor wheel, evc, and a tubular exhaust manifold.

That's a good start. How does the car run with all that? Had any problems with sage mode timing retard?


P.s. As, to the AWD launch..I love the 2-step setup on my AEM...mmmmmmmmm. 5500rpm bouncing off the limiter and loading up boost. yummy.


What model AEM comes with that! Wow that sounds fun! Thats what I want! I wonder if Power FC has that option.


Mine has it and its an earlier version. So I'm sure the newer ones do. You can download the aem software for free on the forum and look at what it has to offer. Its under rev-limiters in the program. Some call it anti lag, two step, whatever have you. Unless they both have secret meanings separate from eachother that I don't know about.
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby GT4times2 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:10 am

If you want an AEM at this point, go with the AEM EMS-4. It has many features the Ver. 2 has, plus it costs less. Then you get the benefit of building yourself a new harness (I would not trust a 20+ yr old brittle harness in a turbo car at this point). Might as well start from scratch (Or pay someone with the skills to do it).

You'll be glad you went that route. It frees up space, you can have a neat engine bay and if done properly, a more reliable system (no electrical gremlins to sort out).

You have some options:

AEM EMS-4, the DIY Auto Tune (MegaSquirt), Haltech, Microtech, EMS Stinger to name a few. All well under $1K. You can't go wrong with either.

The Apexi Power FC is harder to come by, and they didn't make them for the ST165. The used ones are costly, and not worth the headache (even if you wanted to do a re-pin).
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby underscore » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:07 am

Converting to a standalone isn't cheap, so be sure your final goals land you in the realms of needing it ($1k+ for the EMS, $5-600 for a full harness, $$$$$$ for tuning). If you do go standalone, before you pick anything find a tuner you like and see what they're capable of tuning. I think the most common goof-up in the modifying world is picking a stanalone, installing it, and then realizing the nearest tuner who understands that system is many, many hours away.
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby GT4times2 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:31 am

underscore wrote:Converting to a standalone isn't cheap, so be sure your final goals land you in the realms of needing it ($1k+ for the EMS, $5-600 for a full harness, $$$$$$ for tuning). If you do go standalone, before you pick anything find a tuner you like and see what they're capable of tuning. I think the most common goof-up in the modifying world is picking a stanalone, installing it, and then realizing the nearest tuner who understands that system is many, many hours away.


Very true. I'd look for a tuner that deals with more than one system (there are plenty out there). A one system tuner is limited in my opinion.
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby psipwrd » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:00 am

C-dubb, How much boost do you see at 5500 with launch control?
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby underscore » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:40 am

GT4times2 wrote:
underscore wrote:Converting to a standalone isn't cheap, so be sure your final goals land you in the realms of needing it ($1k+ for the EMS, $5-600 for a full harness, $$$$$$ for tuning). If you do go standalone, before you pick anything find a tuner you like and see what they're capable of tuning. I think the most common goof-up in the modifying world is picking a stanalone, installing it, and then realizing the nearest tuner who understands that system is many, many hours away.


Very true. I'd look for a tuner that deals with more than one system (there are plenty out there). A one system tuner is limited in my opinion.


Agreed, also if possible look at as many tuners in your area as possible, and see which systems are tuned by more than one of them. This gives you backups if one of them quits or moves or you end up not liking them.
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Re: 600-800 HP 3SGTE discussion

Postby C-dubb » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:17 pm

psipwrd wrote:C-dubb, How much boost do you see at 5500 with launch control?


Mine is tuned pretty conservatively, and I have not used it often. But I've tested out the launch a couple of times building about 7 to 8 psi. I could tune it more aggressively and raise the rev limiter and retard the timing more but It's just been set up at a basic starting point. I plan on adjusting and fine tuning more on the Dyno/Track.

There are some that say it's an engine killer, which I would have to agree with. If its used a lot, but If you race a lot its going to kill your engine one way or another, race engines generally don't last long or get rebuilt frequently because of the harsh conditions they endure in a race season.

I think with a conservative setup for the track that I don't sit and wail on for more than a couple of seconds at launch, it shouldn't be too destructive, but I will see how it works out.
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