engine swap alternatives?

leekycelicy

New member
Swapping the gte between models is well known.

What about swapping between makers.
The gte is a great engine but has anyone thought about an mitsubishi evo engine (same layout) imprezza or other 4wd 4cyl turbo?
 

bobtherider123

New member
Ive been extremely curious about v6 swaps like the mr2's do. Instant gobs of torque and almost 300hp with near 30mpg from the 2gr. My fear is that it may not clear the transfercase on the alltrac.
 

Mafix

New member
LEEKY: why bother with all that work? just go buy an evo or a sti. better platform than these old girls.
bob: you have to use a rav4 transfer case IIRC. and a little block grinding. it's been done.
 

underscore

Well-known member
leekycelicy":2on2zr9u said:
Swapping the gte between models is well known.

What about swapping between makers.
The gte is a great engine but has anyone thought about an mitsubishi evo engine (same layout) imprezza or other 4wd 4cyl turbo?

If you want to spend a tonne of money building a car that you could never sell without losing a tonne of money, only to be slightly different (not necessarily better in any way) then sure. Doing something odd to an AWD platform isn't as easy as in a RWD one, you can't just fab a couple motor mounts and get a custom driveshaft made.
 

CSAlltrac

New member
Like Underscore said, lose two drive wheels and the world becomes very open when it comes to this topic. That's not to say it isn't possible, just how deep are your pockets. I would say get a RWD car to experiment on, much less expensive(and rare). I love crazy swaps but an Alltrac needs to be 3S powered. I've always liked the idea of a Beams 3SGE on ITBs in an Alltrac, that's about as crazy as I would attempt.
 

Sifu

New member
1uze swapped RWD V8 Celica in Australia has been around for a while.
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I remember an ST165 swapped MR layout drag racecar. I believe the owner used an American V8.
 

underscore

Well-known member
I thought it was a hill climb car? Either way, it was a neat car but probably impossible to sell. Was it MR or did they make it MA like an exotic?

Edit: Here it is, it's a Ford 460 V8 with a supercharger, and it's still AWD! viewtopic.php?t=46070
 

underscore

Well-known member
IMO crazy swaps like that K20 MR2 are pointless when the original engine or a bolt in engine is just as capable. Unless you secretly enjoy doing completely unnecessary fab work and ordering custom parts, in which case go ahead.
 

sinerasis

New member
leekycelicy":2eqt2wbp said:
I want my car to look like an st165 with an fq400 from an evo lol
Why? I don't know much about Evo's, but from reading wikipedia for 5 seconds, I see a FQ400 is a 4g63 engine with ~405hp. You can do that with a 3sgte without all the crazy work involved of getting the motor in the car. 400hp is a very obtainable goal with the motor an Alltrac comes with already.

underscore":2eqt2wbp said:
IMO crazy swaps like that K20 MR2 are pointless when the original engine or a bolt in engine is just as capable. Unless you secretly enjoy doing completely unnecessary fab work and ordering custom parts, in which case go ahead.
I'd have to agree. While it's obviously cool and fast or whatever, there's no reason that car couldn't have been powered by the motor it came with. At those kind of power levels, so much is custom anyway it doesn't really matter what you start with (within reason).
 

CSAlltrac

New member
underscore":3hv45nmc said:
IMO crazy swaps like that K20 MR2 are pointless when the original engine or a bolt in engine is just as capable. Unless you secretly enjoy doing completely unnecessary fab work and ordering custom parts, in which case go ahead.
I agree with you that the 3S is just as capable. What it does not have is 1/3 the aftermarket support of a K series Honda engine. That with the cost difference of what it takes to make a high HP K series vs a high HP 3S. Ill take the "completely unnecessary fab work" route, the difference is that big. To each their own, diversity in the car world is why it's so good.
 

ALLensTRAC

New member
CSAlltrac":38dh4gby said:
underscore":38dh4gby said:
IMO crazy swaps like that K20 MR2 are pointless when the original engine or a bolt in engine is just as capable. Unless you secretly enjoy doing completely unnecessary fab work and ordering custom parts, in which case go ahead.
I agree with you that the 3S is just as capable. What it does not have is 1/3 the aftermarket support of a K series Honda engine. That with the cost difference of what it takes to make a high HP K series vs a high HP 3S. Ill take the "completely unnecessary fab work" route, the difference is that big. To each their own, diversity in the car world is why it's so good.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who agrees with diversity. I have always been a Toyota purist but some of the best cars have been built walking the road seldom traveled. Honestly that's why I own an Alltrac in the first place. It's not an MR2, AE86, Supra, or a Starlet. There isn't a large aftermarket for the car and that makes it challenging( and frustrating lol).

As to that MR2, a shop had the engine in a Honda and decided to do a RWD platform. That video was taken here when FL2K was going on at BMP. It's so nice to see a 20 year old Toyota hand a modded GTR its ass!!

But why not go even crazier??
How about a 2jz longitudinally mounted with a custom oil pan setup to use an R34 Getrag and front diff setup. That way you keep AWD and a Toyota engine using solid drivetrain components with plenty of support. The fab work is the fun part!!!

Or how about a twin 3sgte setup using an MR2 layout for the hatch mounted power plant. It would require a hell of a Computer to sync the engines and an interesting shifting linkage but how cool would that be?!?

There is a reason so few Mr2's and GT4's make gobs of power or show up in popular YouTube videos beating on Lambos or GTRs. It's this mindset that it can't be done or that our platforms can't be changed without angering the 3s gods!
 

underscore

Well-known member
^ tell me again which K20 makes more power, stock for stock, than a 3S? The reason you see more modded Hondas is because they're more common than our cars. Flip the sales numbers and you would be seeing the same number of big power Celicas as you currently do Civics.

CSAlltrac":284ionxf said:
I agree with you that the 3S is just as capable. What it does not have is 1/3 the aftermarket support of a K series Honda engine. That with the cost difference of what it takes to make a high HP K series vs a high HP 3S. Ill take the "completely unnecessary fab work" route, the difference is that big. To each their own, diversity in the car world is why it's so good.

It has the support in terms of everything you need to make as much power as you want. Internals are easily available, and pretty much everything outside the block is universal fit. But to shove a K20 into an MR2, you're worrying about fitments because the engine and tranny have different dimensions, outlets for things end up in crappy spots, you're likely getting custom CV's every time one gets damaged. Now you've gone through a bunch of money and work and rework just to fit the K20 in, and it doesn't make any more power and you've got the same displacement as you did before you got this silly idea, in a frankencar you'll have to take a huge loss on and wait forever to sell. Unless building a big power K20 costs 1/4 what a 3S does it's a huge waste of money just to say you have a K20 powered MR2.

And how long did it take them to build this thing? I'd rather be driving my car than spending forever building some abomination that might never work.

Now what DOESN'T have the support, is our chassis. Engines are the easy part if you're going for big power IMO, but look at how much footwork people have to put in to try and get us a front LSD, or a tie rod flip kit, or a CF driveshaft. If I was going to do a goofy swap like this, I'd be shoving our motor into something with good chassis support, throw a 3rd gen 3S into a Civic or something.
 

MWP

New member
ALLensTRAC":6j1ztfed said:
But why not go even crazier??
How about a 2jz longitudinally mounted with a custom oil pan setup to use an R34 Getrag and front diff setup. That way you keep AWD and a Toyota engine using solid drivetrain components with plenty of support. The fab work is the fun part!!!

JZ's are too heavy, go 1UZ :)

Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rdo_yCYCHY
Another vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rdo_yCYCHY
Thats a twin-turbo 1UZ with a Nissan GTR (4WD) drivetrain.
One incredible car!
 

ALLensTRAC

New member
MWP":u2pu1p4r said:
ALLensTRAC":u2pu1p4r said:
But why not go even crazier??
How about a 2jz longitudinally mounted with a custom oil pan setup to use an R34 Getrag and front diff setup. That way you keep AWD and a Toyota engine using solid drivetrain components with plenty of support. The fab work is the fun part!!!

JZ's are too heavy, go 1UZ :)!


Normally I would agree but personally I did the Twin Turbo 1UZ thing and it ended in expensive disaster. You want to talk about an engine that has almost zero US support the vvti 1uz is it!! The reason I said 2j is the Getrag is bolt on and the engine can take a serious beating. And there's the ridiculous amount of aftermarket support! In my mind that project would be built for the drag strip not road course or auto cross so the weight would be negligible. But I agree the 1UZ is an awesome engine and doesn't get the respect it deserves similar to the 3s.
 

MWP

New member
Oh, you would have to be a bit crazy to go with a VVTI 1UZ.
The older non-VVTI 1UZ is the best way for turbo unless you have lost of time and $$s to get custom cams made, etc.
 

Sifu

New member
I would always prefer the manufacturer's parts (bin) as a purist but you can't deny the bat-sh1t stuff other people do with their cars and I can respect that from an engineering POV.
 
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