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V6 in Camry All-Trac

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 7:03 pm
by de_engineered
Brought this up on the Facebook group a while back, curious if there's any more conclusive input to be had here.

Have a Camry Trac with a dead motor (big hole in the block). If I'm going to do a new motor, 3S-GTE ideally of course, but that may be a long time coming. Next best thing IMO would be a V6.

I'm feeling the 3VZ-FE for a variety of reasons, but oh but, can it fit with minimal headaches? What might be involved if otherwise?

Any other runner up 6 cyls that are recommended?

Re: V6 in Camry All-Trac

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 7:11 pm
by de_engineered
Little Google-Fu brings us this... Still no answers.

Re: V6 in Camry All-Trac

PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:24 pm
by de_engineered
Seeing views but no answers lol.

Alternate question: 3VZ-FE et all with 4WD Tacoma transmission, would that bolt in, +/- what effort?

I'm gonna take some pictures/measurements on my own in a week or so...

Re: V6 in Camry All-Trac

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 2:34 pm
by de_engineered
And some Googling reveals that answer to the last question. Sure would be neat if it was that easy.

Still leaning on the V6 in there being possible, measurements pending, will call for some customs exhaust work likely (around the y-pipe). That or some creative reshaping of the pan possibly. We shall see. Stay tuned...

Re: V6 in Camry All-Trac

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 8:01 pm
by de_engineered
Some interesting reading. Way too many elipsis and those sigs make my eyes hurt though lol.

The poster alludes to a GT4 V6 swap, but not sure offhand if that every came to fruition. Promising nonetheless.

Re: V6 in Camry All-Trac

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 7:31 pm
by de_engineered
So, today's update in stupid swap ideas land is the issue of gearing, namely dropping in a motor with 150% the displacement of the original. Not to mention clutch holding, details details.

According to our always 100% accurate friends at Wikipedia (I'll check my Chiltons/Hanes guides when I get home, think I have two each for both Camrys and Celicas), here's the ratios for a Camry All-Trac 5 speed (E56F):

1st: 3.230
2nd: 2.045
3rd: 1.258
4th: 0.972
5th: 0.731
R: 3.545
F: 3.933

And a 3VZ-FE Camry 5 speed (E53):

1st: 3.538
2nd: 2.045
3rd: 1.333
4th: 1.028
5th: 0.820
R: 3.583
F: 3.625

A while back I found a guy who did a 3VZ-FE swap on his RAV4, similar to the Camry chassis in ways. Call it the Forester to Subaru's Impreza. Didn't pay too much attention to his gearing situation, and iirc he did play with the ratios, if but for the sake of taking care of what he decided was unpleasant about the stock Rav (firewall at work is stopping me from checking blogs, but I will have you know, not car forums evidently!).

Pedning the clutch holding, it would make for a zippy car alright, which is cool and all, but I'm also looking for a tenable daily. Even some tall 4th and 5th gears as "overdrives" wouldn't necicarily do me well.

Just more to mull over and think about. I may very well just to a 5S-FE 2.2, but it's fun to archair admirial bigger ideas in the meantime.

Re: V6 in Camry All-Trac

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 9:05 pm
by alltracman78
I doubt it would be that hard to do. The Camry was available with a V6, so it will physically fit.
You're not going to blow the stock clutch with a stock V6 either.
Try using the E150/51F transmission. You'll probably have block clearance issues with the transfer case but it can be done.

Someone put a 3VZFE in an Alltrac a while back, Camry's got more room....

Re: V6 in Camry All-Trac

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 10:27 pm
by de_engineered
That theoretical ease of fitment was my original line of reasoning... I guess Camry All-Tracs are rare and niche enough that folks don't want to bother with more pedestrian swaps, usually opting for the 3S-GTE, or like phattyduck, a BEAMS swap.

Also looking to save $, at least for now, so no JDM trans just yet haha. Smog will be an issue for a while still too. I'd get a Caldina front clip just as soon if I could. Motor's going to be the most expensive part at day's end (be it a 3S-GTE or turbo'd 3VZ), and if I take the turbo 3VZ route, I'm part way there already if I use a 3VZ-FE now.

I'm gonna take and post some pictures of the underside of my Trac tonight for posterity, and checking measurements for fitment. Again, people keep alluding to a custom y-pipe, but I don't know if it's necessary, or if the transfer case/propshaft get in the way. We shall see...

Thanks for the feedback!

Re: V6 in Camry All-Trac

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 10:40 pm
by de_engineered
And more interesting reading (starting at about post 95), but nothing conclusive. HMMMM.

Re: V6 in Camry All-Trac

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 1:00 am
by de_engineered
Bleh, the friend I was going to sell the car to still has the key, and it's pushed a bit too close to the curb to slip a jack under the front. Flat passenger side front tire too. Eh.

Here's some midish to rear shots of the exhaust though...

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Re: V6 in Camry All-Trac

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 3:29 am
by underscore
What engine is currently in there? Have you considered a 1/3MZ?

Re: V6 in Camry All-Trac

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 3:37 am
by de_engineered
underscore wrote:What engine is currently in there? Have you considered a 1/3MZ?


3S-FE. The 3VZ-FE kick was prompted by this...

And if nothing else, older motor ought be cheaper. No matter what I put in, I'd want to refresh the head anyway, and the iron block on the 3VZ ought be bulletproof.

Believe you me, a 2GR-FE/FSE would be sick, but $$$ haha/cry.

Re: V6 in Camry All-Trac

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 4:17 am
by underscore
From the sounds of it the 3VZ bolts up to S series transmissions, motor mounts should work as well given that it shared a chassis with a 5S at one point. You're just left with sorting out a clutch and wiring, the clutch disc is the same as some 1MZ/3SFE/3SGTE and the flywheel is the same as some 1MZ's which is supposed to be the same as the 2GR and 3S. I can't find any info on the pressure plate but you should be able to sort that out by confirming the disc and flywheel. So that likely just leaves you with wiring, which shouldn't be too awful given the schematics and a bit of know how.

Note this is all based on just a little bit of web searching but I have a feeling you'll just need to fab a few fluid lines and some wiring and be good to go.

Re: V6 in Camry All-Trac

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 4:25 am
by de_engineered
Some examples of FWD Celicas with V6s...

Custom y-pipe #1

Custom y-pipe #2

Build Log on a ST162

I don't even think I need to worry about the driveshaft bearing carrier, as that's a Camry thing as is.

Re: V6 in Camry All-Trac

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 4:44 am
by de_engineered
underscore wrote:From the sounds of it the 3VZ bolts up to S series transmissions, motor mounts should work as well given that it shared a chassis with a 5S at one point. You're just left with sorting out a clutch and wiring, the clutch disc is the same as some 1MZ/3SFE/3SGTE and the flywheel is the same as some 1MZ's which is supposed to be the same as the 2GR and 3S. I can't find any info on the pressure plate but you should be able to sort that out by confirming the disc and flywheel. So that likely just leaves you with wiring, which shouldn't be too awful given the schematics and a bit of know how.

Note this is all based on just a little bit of web searching but I have a feeling you'll just need to fab a few fluid lines and some wiring and be good to go.


Again, lots of a = b, b = c, :. a = c logic with part compatibilities, all pieces of the puzzle.

The Australian guy who 3VZ'd his Celica said "clutch was sorted using the camry flywheel, the celica friction plate, and the camry pressure plate," least on an ST184 Celica. So, nothing need be changed possibly, best case scenario.

Wires, hoses, least of my problems. If the mounts and exhaust fit, that's 75-85% of my tentative issued there.

With luck, this'll all be CA BAR-able all said and done :D

Thanks for the research!