Page 3 of 5

Re: GI: next group buy

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:33 am
by toayoztan
Yeah about the only company I know that makes a cage or bar for our car is Cusco, which can be had with various points and weld in or assembled I believe.

Oh, and for those inquiring about the CF driveshaft for a group buy, the price they are quoting right now for individual purchases is actually cheaper than the group buy price when they first started selling them.

We could try for another group buy to get even a better discount.

I'm actually looking into buying a CF DS too eventually.

Bryan

Re: GI: next group buy

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:35 am
by dragstang86
toayoztan wrote:What's the cage made out of?

I'd like to have chromoly steel.

Dragstang, that would be cool to get something set up if possible. My little brother welds, so if I could even just get the shaped/bent bars fitted for the alltrac, I can weld it in myself and weld it together, like a "kit for the welder" type deal. Potential cost?

Klue, I didn't see anything on there either. If there's already a kit made, then yeah, no need to reinvent the wheel.

Bryan


Most everything we do is chromoly except for when a customer requests DOM to meet some sort of SCCA type rules or mild steel just to save a few bucks on a mild car. Being around it all for so long I am probably more particular about it than most people, but it really bothers me when I see universal type (one size fits most) roll bars in cars. I am just really big on the bar fitting the shape of the car and there not being several inches or more of gap between the pillars/headliner and the bar. Some people don't care but I guess I am just really particular with my cars. If anybody is interested I could post a few pics of one of my cars that I had them do a tight fitting cage in.

Re: GI: next group buy

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:37 am
by dragstang86
how much are they quoting on the driveshafts now?

Re: GI: next group buy

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:00 am
by toayoztan

Re: GI: next group buy

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:47 am
by ALLensTRAC
Hey Bryan I am very interested in the DS too. I saw the price they quoted Corey but I was hoping we would have enough members to get a second GB going. I thought that if we had an established trustworthy member host it (i.e. you or Klue) and we could get more than 5 members to buy one it would bring the turnaround time down with ACPT. And about the cage I am just looking at something simple that can be welded in(I don't believe in bolt in cages). I thought that only a 4 point was needed up to 10.99 or slower Dragstang correct me if I'm wrong. Also I had read somewhere that a lot of the sanctioning bodies were going away from chromoly?

Re: GI: next group buy

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:47 pm
by klue
Hey guys,
As for the cages, your right autopower only lists for the st165, I feel like the sore thumb looking for parts for it :P

as for cusco cages, does any have the part numbers for these? If they are still available I should be able to get them!

Problem with chromoly cages is that they are not done right and when they are not they can be lethal. chromoly is one of those materials that I would say needs post weld heat treatment to stress relieve. If you haven't been doing it for 1000 years someone is probably going to end up putting to much heat into it. I dunno this is a touchy subject in racing right now and much debated, im not sure where its going to go as it is hard to regulate the processes beyond welding inspection. When I get the time I will go pick some brains in the chassis prep guys I know and see what I can gain

moving on : raceland. I checked out the site briefly and its the usual stuff there. I like the fact that they sell direct, but that also makes it harder to gauge how many people have issues. I can easily ask one of my supplier, how many times does someone whine about a Tein VS megan(just examples) and how many units do you sell ETC. Sure this is an option but would probably take quite a bit of lead time to get things rolling

CF DS looks pretty good, are there still clearance issues with it?

CF hoods for the st165 will likely never be an option. Unless we had a group of at least 10-20 solid people I doubt any company would invest the time and expense to make a mold for such a limited clientele. Mind you the hood would fit on the st162 so there is no saying that this could not happen


lots of great options here keep it going. if you guys want something lets start leaving a little siggy or something so we can somewhat keep track

Klue: CF driveshaft, st165 CF hood, st165 roll cage

Re: GI: next group buy

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:03 pm
by dragstang86
ALLensTRAC wrote:Hey Bryan I am very interested in the DS too. I saw the price they quoted Corey but I was hoping we would have enough members to get a second GB going. I thought that if we had an established trustworthy member host it (i.e. you or Klue) and we could get more than 5 members to buy one it would bring the turnaround time down with ACPT. And about the cage I am just looking at something simple that can be welded in(I don't believe in bolt in cages). I thought that only a 4 point was needed up to 10.99 or slower Dragstang correct me if I'm wrong. Also I had read somewhere that a lot of the sanctioning bodies were going away from chromoly?


NHRA requires no roll bar until 11.49 or faster. From 10.00-11.49 if the car has unaltered OEM floors and firewall you must have at least a 5 point bar. A 5 point bar is nothing more than a 6 point bar without a passenger side door bar. Since that looks goofy I never see anybody that actually goes with a 5 point over a 6 point.

As far as chromoly goes, the drag racing world certainly isn't getting away from it. Actually to go 7.49 1/4 mile, or faster in NHRA you must have an all chromoly cage. A mild steel or DOM cage won't certify faster than 7.50 in NHRA or 7.00 in IHRA. For the purpose of the these cars the only difference between the two is the weight savings of the chromoly.

As for some road track sanctions, some require DOM once you get into the faster classes which is a seamless mild steel for the "bend but not break" characteristics of the DOM. Chromoly is lighter and stronger but it is also harder so it is more prone to crack than bend vs. mild steel/DOM. DOM/Mild Steel isn't as strong as chromoly but it is more apt to bend rather than crack.

Bottom line for the all trac stuff though since nobody is going to be going 7.49 or faster in one, chromoly will save you some weight over mild steel while mild steel will save you a few bucks.

Re: GI: next group buy

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:11 pm
by dragstang86
klue wrote:Hey guys,

Problem with chromoly cages is that they are not done right and when they are not they can be lethal. chromoly is one of those materials that I would say needs post weld heat treatment to stress relieve. If you haven't been doing it for 1000 years someone is probably going to end up putting to much heat into it. I dunno this is a touchy subject in racing right now and much debated, im not sure where its going to go as it is hard to regulate the processes beyond welding inspection. When I get the time I will go pick some brains in the chassis prep guys I know and see what I can gain


This reminded me of a key point I left out. Chromoly bars must be TIG welded which relates to the post above. This is because you can easily put too much heat to it MIG welding it but not the case TIG welding it. This is actually required by NHRA as well even though they don't actually check or certify the stuff until you go 9.99 or faster in which point you need a full cage. Anyway, if you only have the ability to MIG weld the bar, then go mild steel or DOM. We TIG weld everything regardless of Mild Steel or Chromoly.

Re: GI: next group buy

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:41 pm
by ALLensTRAC
Hey Klue the DS has no clearance issues even under Pat's car with a 3.5 inch exhaust. Also I think Darthripley has one with aussie exhaust components and has zero issues. Personally I was planning for a DOM 4-6 point with the front bars squared and lowered to make getting in and out easier. I have called quite a few chassis shops inquiring if they have the specs for our cars(st185) to make the weld in cage and none of them have them i.e. ChassisEngineering.

ALLensTRAC: ACPT driveshaft,4-6 point weld in cage DOM,VIS CS hood
All 3 of these I am interested in.

Re: GI: next group buy

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:52 pm
by klue
Thanks Allen, have not looked through the thread in a while

Klue: CF driveshaft, st165 CF hood, st165 roll cage
ALLensTRAC: ACPT driveshaft,4-6 point weld in cage DOM,VIS CS hood

Re: GI: next group buy

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:28 pm
by toayoztan
As for the cages, I'll let you guys figure that out and I'm in if it can be shipped in pieces for me to weld up (shipping will be easier than a whole cage!).

As for the DS, i'm also in on that if we can get enough people going. I'll be willing to wait to gather enough people for a GB if the interest is there.

Klue: ACPT driveshaft, st165 CF hood, st165 roll cage
ALLensTRAC: ACPT driveshaft,4-6 point weld in cage DOM,VIS CS hood
toayoztan: ACPT driveshaft // ST185 6 point weld in cage

Bryan

Re: GI: next group buy

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:04 pm
by Spectra1
Klue: ACPT driveshaft, st165 CF hood, st165 roll cage
ALLensTRAC: ACPT driveshaft,4-6 point weld in cage DOM,VIS CS hood
toayoztan: ACPT driveshaft // ST185 6 point weld in cage
spectra1: ACPT driveshaft, VIS hood

Re: GI: next group buy

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:51 pm
by GT4times2
klue wrote:Hey guys,
moving on : raceland. I checked out the site briefly and its the usual stuff there. I like the fact that they sell direct, but that also makes it harder to gauge how many people have issues. I can easily ask one of my supplier, how many times does someone whine about a Tein VS megan(just examples) and how many units do you sell ETC. Sure this is an option but would probably take quite a bit of lead time to get things rolling


Klue,

I did my research on different forums after people tried/installed them on Subarus, BMWs, Hondas, SCion TCs etc. I'd say it's worth a shot to give them a try. Let me know if I can be of any assistance. Consider it.

Thanks,

Re: GI: next group buy

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:13 pm
by concealer404
GT4times2 wrote:Hey Klue,

I've been doing some reading on the Raceland coil overs, and I see many good reviews on them. Would you be interested in promoting something for the ST165 and ST185 cars? They make kits for quite a few cars, and it would be nice to add the Celicas to the mix. Do you have any pull to make that happen? I saw a thread on the 6GC.net site about getting on board for a kit for the 6th Gen. Could you do that? They're already affordable, and I know many Alltrac guys would show some sort of interest.

http://www.racelandus.com/

I'd be interested in any kinds of bushings as well, subframe, rear diff mounts/bushings. I will send you a PM on some things I've been working on myself for Alltrac restoration parts with certain companies, etc.

VIS RC hood will seem to be the logical route for my ST185 vs oem RC hood. If they can make one for the ST165, that'll be great. But I'm not going to hold my breath.


You do NOT want Ricelands. If you're wanting something even cheaper than Megan or KSport, i wouldn't go any lower than Yonaka, and even that is pretty iffy.

All the Riceland coilovers run the same shocks/valving, they just change the mounting points to fit each car. The spring rates are universally milquetoast as well.

They're worth looking into if you're wanting nothing more to go low on a budget with no regard to performance. Beyond that, no.




I voted for race engine mounts. And by that i mean billet solid mounts. Would also be interested in VIS CS-style hood.

Re: GI: next group buy

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:30 am
by temperacerguy
OK, spoke to Klue already, so I am just going to mention this, then post a new thread. (So please don't clutter up this thread)

Because I want a hood for myself, and I have a few buddies from my old contacts from when I owned my own shop, I got back in contact with a VIS wholesaler...

Due to the current economy, VIS has lowered their inventory they keep on hand in the US, and alot of their more obscure hoods are made to order now, with limited stock on hand.

Currently there are zero VIS CS hoods in the US. However... If you are willing to pre-order (and pre-pay) for the next shipment (which is due 1st or 2nd week in April), They are willing to offer a price of.

$400 + $145 shipping (in the lower 48US). If you are in So-Cal, they also will offer a pickup for a $25 fee

This is by far the cheapest price I have seen for these hoods.

PM me for contact information.

I am also trying to work out prices for:

5th Gen AT style hood
5th Gen smooth (base OEM) hood
6th Gen smooth (base OEM) hood
7th Gen OEM hood.

I will ask about 4th gen hoods.... but as Klue said "I wouldn't hold my breath"