ST205 Front Brakes

Suspension and other discussion

Postby darthripley » Sat May 03, 2008 4:02 pm

Andre, are you using the ST205 hub up front?
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Postby etantshi » Sat May 03, 2008 7:12 pm

I was seriously considering it. Because that way the rotor would sit more 'square' on the hub and keep me from having to use a ring around the center bore.
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Postby etantshi » Sat May 03, 2008 7:14 pm

These brackets are a real challenge to do unless you want the caliper sitting down toward the ball joint.
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Postby darthripley » Sat May 03, 2008 8:19 pm

i may try to use the 205 hub up front if it can be done - i haven't looked & compared enough to see what is & isn't possible.
can the 205 hub be used or not?

i can imagine it's a pain trying to do the caliper brackets :(
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Postby etantshi » Sat May 03, 2008 8:39 pm

darthripley wrote:i may try to use the 205 hub up front if it can be done - i haven't looked & compared enough to see what is & isn't possible.
can the 205 hub be used or not?

i can imagine it's a pain trying to do the caliper brackets :(


I'm pretty sure the hub is the same, minus the centerbore. Seriously considering milling the rotor down 7.5mm
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Postby darthripley » Sat May 03, 2008 11:33 pm

etantshi wrote:I'm pretty sure the hub is the same, minus the centerbore. Seriously considering milling the rotor down 7.5mm


so making a caliper bracket is that much of a pain, that its looking better to just mill down the rotor?
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Postby etantshi » Sun May 04, 2008 1:32 am

darthripley wrote:
etantshi wrote:I'm pretty sure the hub is the same, minus the centerbore. Seriously considering milling the rotor down 7.5mm


so making a caliper bracket is that much of a pain, that its looking better to just mill down the rotor?


The ears on the caliper are so close to the stock mounting points it's ridiculous. When you move the caliper to either side the ears on the caliper/mounting spots on the spindle foul each other's hole. Making a bolt through bracket very difficult as you would need to be able to run a bolt through each of the 4 hose independently. The only location where all 4 holes are open is a location that puts the caliper super close to the lower ball joint.
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Postby etantshi » Mon May 05, 2008 5:43 pm

Let me first start off by saying that the st205 set up is lighter than the stock single pot setup. Up front on the stock st185 the caliper is a cast iron type setup with a rather large cast iron bracket. The st205 caliper is aluminum which cuts down on the weight quite a bit. The only thing that is heavier than stock is the rotor.

On to what I have done.... The bracket with the stock dimension rotor and caliper is pretty much impossible. You run into a few problems. The main one is the fact that the mounting tabs on the 205 spindle and the 185 spindle are almost entirely identical. The only difference is that the st185 points are slightly shorter.

Here's a pic of all stock components from the st185 and st205:

Image

Image

To utilize the stock rotor size the caliper must be moved, widening the stock hole on the either the caliper or the spindle would, in my opinion, make the mounting point too weak.

Moving the caliper toward the top of the spindle you run into interference with the strut mount. And you only gain 15mm of room or so, but the mounting tabs would still run interference with any fasteners used for the bracket.

Image

Moving the caliper toward the bottom results more feasible room for a bracket, but you still have clearance issues. Mainly coming from the lower mounting tab hitting the inner brake pad. Not only that, but I don't like the idea of having the caliper right on the lower ball joint. Just not a big fan of that. And lastly, the caliper just looks dumb sitting at the bottom of the wheel. People wouldn't be able to read the word 'celica' without doing a hand stand.

Image

Image

The only real way to get the caliper to work with the stock size rotor would be to either widen the holes on caliper/mounting tabs. Or cut the ears off the caliper and re drill holes and use a bracket. Neither of which I really wanna do. On the flip side a different sized rotor makes the world of difference. Using a larger rotor, would space the caliper away from the stock mounting tabs and would allow you to make a bracket that fits. That has been done a few times. Or milling the rotor down to fit. And that has been done a few times. To my knowledge, NO ONE, has done this using all stock components with no modification whatsoever. On a side note, looking at the wear pattern on the st205 disc the pad doesn't fully use the whole rotor face, so milling the rotor down does not create problems with the pad not contacting rotor. And the final side not. All these parts bolt on using the stock st185 sized rotor, but part of the pad does hang off the rotor face as a 277mm rotor is too small to support that sized pad.

So all in all, I will be milling down the rotor. That way I can keep this project under 400 dollars.
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Postby bozo-merlin » Mon May 05, 2008 6:15 pm

You're right, fitting is a pitty but don't forget, rotors are serviceable parts

if you need to mill down the rotors every time you change it the $400- will be an utopia

take an sti MY'02-'04 rotors (very cheap here as there is a lot of)
made a simple 12+mm braket with 4 hole and a spacer, for each side of course

If i haven't buy some dba rotors i would have done it that way

my next set up will be with unmodded 205 calipers and sti'04 rotors, or perhaps looks for audi RS4 B7 brembo setup and 18" to clear the rotor :lol:
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Postby darthripley » Mon May 05, 2008 11:54 pm

thanks for all the pics Andre.
now i see how hard it would be to make brackets.

how much are you having the rotors milled down - how many mm was it again?
what size spacer are you going to use so the rotor will clear the lower ball joint?
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Postby Nitro_Alltrac » Tue May 06, 2008 12:29 am

It's good to see some pictures. This is something I've been thinking about but wasn't entirely sure how bad it was going to be. I'm going to wait and see how you do it Andre.
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Postby etantshi » Tue May 06, 2008 1:45 am

darthripley wrote:thanks for all the pics Andre.
now i see how hard it would be to make brackets.

how much are you having the rotors milled down - how many mm was it again?
what size spacer are you going to use so the rotor will clear the lower ball joint?


Probably going to mill down between 6-8mm. Anything more than that I think would be too much.
-----
André B.
1991 ST185 (down but not out)
1990 ST185 (lost, but not forgotten)
1996 RZN140 (the daily)
2004 Yamaha R6 (needs a battery)
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Postby phattyduck » Fri May 09, 2008 10:28 pm

Do you think moving up to a Stoptech 332mmx32mm disk would give you sufficient extra room for a bracket? That would move the caliper another 8.5mm away from the hub. I figure you would still need to rotate the caliper up or down to avoid interferance with the 'ears' still.

I'm hoping to get the ST205 calipers front and rear that I got with my ST205 clip installed on my Alltrac Camry (the brakes bolt on in the same way as the Alltrac Celica).

-Charlie
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Postby etantshi » Sat May 10, 2008 1:19 am

phattyduck wrote:Do you think moving up to a Stoptech 332mmx32mm disk would give you sufficient extra room for a bracket? That would move the caliper another 8.5mm away from the hub. I figure you would still need to rotate the caliper up or down to avoid interferance with the 'ears' still.

I'm hoping to get the ST205 calipers front and rear that I got with my ST205 clip installed on my Alltrac Camry (the brakes bolt on in the same way as the Alltrac Celica).

-Charlie


I think you do do it with a 324mm disc. This is an option if you wanna use rex rotors. That should give you enough room to run some fasteners through a bracket without hitting the ear of the caliper. In essence, something similar to what 'john the revelator' did with his setup. A 332 disc would more than likely allow you to run the calipers 'straight up' in the stock location with a bracket.
-----
André B.
1991 ST185 (down but not out)
1990 ST185 (lost, but not forgotten)
1996 RZN140 (the daily)
2004 Yamaha R6 (needs a battery)
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Postby phattyduck » Mon May 12, 2008 9:18 pm

etantshi wrote:
phattyduck wrote:Do you think moving up to a Stoptech 332mmx32mm disk would give you sufficient extra room for a bracket? That would move the caliper another 8.5mm away from the hub. I figure you would still need to rotate the caliper up or down to avoid interferance with the 'ears' still.

I'm hoping to get the ST205 calipers front and rear that I got with my ST205 clip installed on my Alltrac Camry (the brakes bolt on in the same way as the Alltrac Celica).

-Charlie


I think you do do it with a 324mm disc. This is an option if you wanna use rex rotors. That should give you enough room to run some fasteners through a bracket without hitting the ear of the caliper. In essence, something similar to what 'john the revelator' did with his setup. A 332 disc would more than likely allow you to run the calipers 'straight up' in the stock location with a bracket.
'04 STi disks are pretty tempting, though the hub center is 57mm instead of 54.1 (or 55mm in the case of the ST205), which would require some sort of centering ring. I am reasonably sure Stoptech (and others) have a 54.1mm center bore, 5x100 hat for a large disk (like the Stoptech 332mmx32mm). Overall brake balance could be fixed by just running slightly more aggressive pad in the rear. The only downside is initial cost, as replacement disks should be cheaper than full stock STi or ST205 disks.

-Charlie
'89 Camry LE Alltrac 3S-GTE - SV25/ST205 hybrid
'99 4Runner SR5 4WD 5VZ-FE
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