Custom front and rear big brake kit

Suspension and other discussion

Postby Denver_whiteST185 » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:20 pm

Meurz wrote:
Denver_whiteST185 wrote:Our ABS system is a different story, since i see it as junk. i found i could brake more actually and stop quicker with it disabled.

I hope you never have to do that in a REAL emergency situation cause you'll crash your car. I did many advanced driver courses, some with the CS, some on a skid pan, but no matter how much you train, you'll always react differently when you're on the road and you're actually heading into a big crash. Then you don't think, but stamp on the brakes, lock up, etc...

Well that's my view anyway. :)


During the winter of 06-07, Denver had 4 major snow storms (the largest was well over 2.5 feet with up to 10 ft drifts, look at my gallery for a photo of my car buried) and had over 2 months of consecutive days with snow covering the roads since most side roads weren't plowed due to the amount of snow from the first big storm.
I drove my car all but one day during that. Given i did have some really meaty snow tires, and i drove within my means, but my ABS was deactivated the entire time. i found when i was braking hard, if my car felt the slightest bump it would activate the ABS and i would loose all of my pedal feel.

Now, newer cars with new ABS systems are extremely useful for more than just ice. I'm just saying that the stock ABS system on our car is in my opinion, garbage, wet or dry.
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went back to the dark side of hondas!!!
(not really, i just own a completely UNmodified 91 civic dx that gets 45+ mpg now)
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Postby Simba » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:36 am

gt4rcdude wrote:Front OEM caliper is 2.25" diameter for a total of 3.97 sq. in.
Wilwoods at 1.62" diameter X2 for a total of 4.12 sq. in.


Curious about your area calculation here-- as there are four pots in the wilwood caliper, would your area not be 8.24 sq. in?

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Postby bozo-merlin » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:03 am

Simba wrote:Curious about your area calculation here-- as there are four pots in the wilwood caliper, would your area not be 8.24 sq. in?


the calculation is right

single pot needs to move 2x in order to make contact on both side of the rotor whereas opposite pots on a 4 pots move only once each, that's why you could compare

single pot area x2 vs 4 pots total area, or simply single pot area vs 2 pot (on the same side) total area

floating caliper need to move twice to make contact on each side, that's what a trackday friend of mine explain me a long time ago, and that's really logic ;)
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Postby Meurz » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:57 am

Fair point, I agree with you regarding snow/ice. We don't have that over here that much (specially not on the roads) :)
On dry tarmac, I still think ABS can/will save you.
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Postby fhalperformance » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:39 pm

Youre right about the tires but bigger brakes can cause any number of changes in stopping distance in good or bad ways. I can show you how you improved/hurt your braking abilities, and is the only real test I can think of for brake efficiency in a comparative way.
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Postby Denver_whiteST185 » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:37 am

Meurz wrote:Fair point, I agree with you regarding snow/ice. We don't have that over here that much (specially not on the roads) :)
On dry tarmac, I still think ABS can/will save you.


maybe something was up with my ABS, but on dry roads if i was braking hard and i hit even the smallest bump, it would activate and i would loose all my pedal until i let up and i reapplied the brakes.
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(not really, i just own a completely UNmodified 91 civic dx that gets 45+ mpg now)
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Postby gt4rcdude » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:45 am

bozo-merlin wrote:
Simba wrote:Curious about your area calculation here-- as there are four pots in the wilwood caliper, would your area not be 8.24 sq. in?


the calculation is right

single pot needs to move 2x in order to make contact on both side of the rotor whereas opposite pots on a 4 pots move only once each, that's why you could compare

single pot area x2 vs 4 pots total area, or simply single pot area vs 2 pot (on the same side) total area

floating caliper need to move twice to make contact on each side, that's what a trackday friend of mine explain me a long time ago, and that's really logic ;)


Bingo.

I wish I had tested the OEM brake system with these new wheels and tires before I upgraded the brakes. It just worked out that I did it all at once. I was able to lock all wheels with the OEM setup, ABS disabled. The limiting factor was adhesion. I can tell you the new system is easier to modulate as I had to panic brake tonight. The stop was from 75mph. The brakes were consistently awe inspiring throughout the entire deceleration. AOL keyword consistent all the way down.

As a motorcyclist I'm used to threshold braking and I've had the ABS system interfere more than once. It's a crude system that may save your bacon in a panic, but it's no match for a 4 channel independent system. It has lengthened more than one stop.
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Postby Azonic » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:37 pm

The ABS almost cost me a fence post and a bumper the other day....

had my son in the car, goofing on my long gravel drive..
punched it in first, just as I started a corner, to get a good drift going to give my son a thrill...

We drifted the corner, but had to much speed coming out, and I started to brake, and the ABS on the rough loose gravel would not allow for any braking...

I stopped trusting/using the ABS at that point and tried to modulate myself, but kept getting the ABS interupt...

Stopped litteraly <----> this close to the fence post at my gate!!

Not cool...

Time to diable mine...
And BTW... I love this brake setup you have...
$$$ needed and I will do very similar....
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Postby syko says » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:15 pm

I dont have ABS, never locked it up (yet).

However, I think we should keep this on topic whereas we can have an ABS thread made :)
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Postby CMS-GT4 » Sat May 17, 2008 12:34 am

What was the part number on those calipers?
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Postby gt4rcdude » Sat May 17, 2008 3:59 pm

CMS-GT4 wrote:What was the part number on those calipers?


Front OEM caliper is 2.25" diameter for a total of 3.97 sq. in.
Wilwoods at 1.62" diameter X2 for a total of 4.12 sq. in. Part no#120-8465L & R

Rear OEM caliper is 1.37" diameter for a total of 1.47 sq. in.
Wilwoods at 1.00" diameter X2 for a total of 1.57 sq. in. Part no#120-9706


Updated the post!
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Postby CMS-GT4 » Sat May 17, 2008 4:45 pm

What made you decide on that front piston dia.? The Rocket kit is 1.38. I wonder if your ABS MC handles the larger piston better.
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Postby bozo-merlin » Sat May 17, 2008 7:39 pm

I don't remember ST205 piston size (i think it's 1.73") but with the front and rear 205 caliper on a 1" ABS version MC and no ABS i easily burn the tyres when brake half the pedal even on dry road.

The gt4rcdude choice is keeping the same piston area from stock in order for ABS to work near to standard
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Postby gt4rcdude » Sun May 18, 2008 1:51 am

bozo-merlin wrote:
The gt4rcdude choice is keeping the same piston area from stock in order for ABS to work near to standard


The choice was more to maintain the OEM brake balance and pedal travel.
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Postby turbo4wd » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:42 pm

You know.. the only thing we'd really need are the caliper brackets and the brake lines..

Any chance your buddy at the machine shop would be willing to make a batch of these and make them available to us?

The calipers, rotors, and machining of the stock rotors can all be done by the individual - the hardest part of the whole thing seemed to be getting the fitment down and getting the bracket correctly sized up along with the brake lines..
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