Using camber plates as caster plates?

Suspension and other discussion

Postby 88st165 » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:04 pm

How are you guys measuring the castor when you do this? Surely you arent going to the alignment shop after every adjustment. That would cost too much! I do my toe adjustment with the string method and it works pretty good though I have nothing to measure the castor.
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Postby bozo-merlin » Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:58 pm

I have a alignement shop as neighbour

do the job myself but have free access, sorry
Last edited by bozo-merlin on Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby BoostedBlueToyotas » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:28 pm

esracing is a Toyota master tech at a toyota dealership

Hmm , tattletail gray .... :D
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Postby Roundy » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:52 pm

88st165 wrote:How are you guys measuring the castor when you do this? Surely you arent going to the alignment shop after every adjustment. That would cost too much! I do my toe adjustment with the string method and it works pretty good though I have nothing to measure the castor.


I am good friends with the alignment shop in my town, so it was adjusted at the shop, and he spent the time to get both sides spot on together.

I would've just cranked both of them all the way back and be done with it, as if that doesn't give equal caster i didn't have equal caster before hand.
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Postby johndgt4 » Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:49 pm

Hi guys,

I made myself a little wooden board with a plumb-bob and degrees markings to measure camber and if using the plumbob as the vertical datum I can rotate the board to show the caster angle when aligned with the strut housing.

It's rough but should be pretty close to the mark.

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Postby TomsGT4 » Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:10 pm

esracing wrote:the bolt will give u enough camber the plates will do camber and caster at the same time. ok first make shure the plate are centerd then ajust the camber with the bolts then do the caster also u have to ceter the toe during this step


Thanks -thats what I was hoping to hear :)
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Postby MrDB » Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:16 am

Buy a digital spirit level. Place on ground and zero. You can then measure the angle of anything in relation to ground. Camber / caster etc...
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Postby Toxygene » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:56 pm

Roundy wrote:That is me :)

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gave me an extra 56' of caster, and using camber bolts to get the camber however my coilovers have the slotted holes as well, i had the camber bolts before that.

I have to say the difference to the handling was profound. It changed it to an oversteery beast!

It allowed me to soften the rear swaybar off and still be able to provoke oversteer from it.

Obviously there is more than just the caster that has done that, but that was the final change i made.

Now i don't know what more to do with it :shrug: i have the balance so from there i think i need to learn how to drive it a lot better :)


What are all the pieces that you are running for your suspension?
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Postby Roundy » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:21 pm

When you say all the pieces i am running on my suspension you mean what aftermarket i have installed??

Front:
Poly bushes
Stock strut brace
G4 Coilovers 7kg/mm spring rate.
1*56' Caster
-1*45' Camber
1mm toe in

Rear:
Stock trailing arm bushes (couldn't get the damn things off!)
Inner arm bushes poly
G4 Coilovers 4.5kg/mm spring rate
-0*45' Camber
2mm toe in
Whiteline rear strut brace
Whiteline rear swaybar set to the middle position.

That setup still had the car with steady state oversteer, but only a little.

I am about to change my coilover setup to inverted struts with 8kg/mm front 5kg/mm rear.

This means that i will be relatively softer at the rear hopefully reducing some of the understeer and allowing me to have the swaybar in the middle setting to have it balanced.

No idea if that will work, that is just my hopes LOL
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Postby grug » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:17 am

K-MAC www.k-mac.com.au make a camber/caster plate for the ST185. 2 dimensional adjustablity so you can add plenty of positive caster as well as adjust camber. See website for details. They work with the factory strut.

To quote what I said in post "tighter steering":

grug wrote:As per title they are made for the Celicas (including ST185) here in Australia by a suspension company called K-MAC (www.k-mac.com.au), which ship worldwide. The good thing about them is that they have fully adjustable caster as well as camber, being that they are two dimensionally adjustable.

They have 3 models, 1 street (stage 1) and 2 track (stage 2&3). I have a street set on my commodore and the quality seems excellent. I was very close to getting a set for my ST185, however the price for them is ridiculous $370 AU for the stage 1 and $465 for the stage 2 or 3 (plus shipping).
Instead I am going to order a full set of coilovers with the adjustable camber plate for the front.
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Re: Using camber plates as caster plates?

Postby mike325ci » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:14 am

i, too, have joined the ranks of those using camber plates as caster plates. :)

Roundy, i see that you could have pushed it back further (more caster), but you didn't-- is it because the springs/strut cap is hitting the inside of your body?? I ran into this issue on my left side... Otherwise I was able to push it back to max caster and I've angled it to give me the max caster (the slot is longer towards the back of the car-- you'll see what you mean when you see my photos).

Photos/write-up on my project thread: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=22973&p=355694#p355694

Once I get my car back on the road (off the road now with the entire dash out to replace my heater core; I never wanna do that job ever again!! :x ), I'm going to get another alignment and I'll post up my specs.

My setup (fronts):
1) Whiteline Springs
2) Koni Sport (Yellow) shocks
3) Stock spring cap plate (not sure what to call this)
4) C-One Camber Plates
5) Toyota OEM 3-Dot Crash Bolts
6) KYB Strut Boot & Bumpstops

Warning/Note: Without touching anything else, but setting the caster/camber to max (pushed towards the back), the car will severely TOE IN. So please make note of this and have your car re-aligned if doing this job, or adjust it yourself slightly before driving.
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Re: Using camber plates as caster plates?

Postby MWP » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:54 am

Toyota OEM 3-Dot Crash Bolts


So i gather these are the OEM form of aftermarket camber bolts?
Do they allow for as much adjustment as aftermarket camber bolts?

Does anyone have a Toyota part number so i can order a set?
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Re: Using camber plates as caster plates?

Postby alltracshoak » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:00 am

mike325ci wrote:TraqFAQ link is broken, btw...

One more, cos it's obscure and can't really be looked up on any EPC:

Crash bolts (aka "Camber Bolts") for ST185:
Fronts:
90105-17005 for the 3-Dot (most camber adjustment, supposed to give +/- 0.75 degrees)
90105-17004 2-Dot (+/- 0.50 degrees)
90105-17003 1-Dot (least camber adjustment @ +/1 0.25 degrees)

Rears:
90105-15006 3-Dot
90105-15005 2-Dot
90105-15004 1-Dot
Nut for the bolt: 90179-15001

I prefer using Toyota crash bolts to aftermarket camber adjusting bolts because they are much more robust and thick, and not prone to slipping like the aftermarket ones. Using crash bolts in conjunction with camber plates will give you a lot of negative camber!
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Re: Using camber plates as caster plates?

Postby MWP » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:14 am

Thankyou!!
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Re: Using camber plates as caster plates?

Postby Roundy » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:23 pm

mike325ci wrote:Roundy, i see that you could have pushed it back further (more caster), but you didn't-- is it because the springs/strut cap is hitting the inside of your body?? I ran into this issue on my left side... Otherwise I was able to push it back to max caster and I've angled it to give me the max caster (the slot is longer towards the back of the car-- you'll see what you mean when you see my photos).


The picture i posted early was before adjustment.

Now they are sitting with 1 as far back as it will go, and the other isn't quite there. Main reason for this is that the fellow that did my wheel alignment made sure the caster was equal side to side.

Has anyone got any pics for those crush bolts???
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