Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Suspension and other discussion

Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby ALLensTRAC » Mon May 05, 2014 10:27 am

bajallama wrote:Cuttyman, why not use the legacy upgraded rotor mention in the beginning that Allen talks about. You can use the stock parking brake with modifications that I show.

After seeing this I did some digging regarding the Leggy GT rotors. They are 290mm diameter stock. It looks as though Racingbrake.com carries a 316x18mm rotor upgrade for them. This might be a good option for US available rotors that could be used with 205 rear calipers.


Cuttyman and I are both running 5x114.3 hubs so we can't run them. Also once the rotor sits down onto the hub it may change the offset making the 205 calipers not line up properly. I had made that suggestion before knowing what you had to do with the hub. It may still be viable but someone would have to take measurements and compare.
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Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby bajallama » Mon May 05, 2014 1:21 pm

ALLensTRAC wrote:Cuttyman and I are both running 5x114.3 hubs so we can't run them. Also once the rotor sits down onto the hub it may change the offset making the 205 calipers not line up properly. I had made that suggestion before knowing what you had to do with the hub. It may still be viable but someone would have to take measurements and compare.


Gotcha, depending on the direction of the offset, you can easily compensate with a flat spacer. Also when I was doing research, I found that a lot of the Subaru parking brakes were the same diameter so I would look into some subie 5x114.3 rotors. I don't think the legacy ever went 5x114.3 but try maybe Tribeca or upgrade SVX. I know the STi is a larger parking brake so that's out.
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Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby ALLensTRAC » Mon May 05, 2014 2:04 pm

bajallama wrote:
ALLensTRAC wrote:Cuttyman and I are both running 5x114.3 hubs so we can't run them. Also once the rotor sits down onto the hub it may change the offset making the 205 calipers not line up properly. I had made that suggestion before knowing what you had to do with the hub. It may still be viable but someone would have to take measurements and compare.


Gotcha, depending on the direction of the offset, you can easily compensate with a flat spacer. Also when I was doing research, I found that a lot of the Subaru parking brakes were the same diameter so I would look into some subie 5x114.3 rotors. I don't think the legacy ever went 5x114.3 but try maybe Tribeca or upgrade SVX. I know the STi is a larger parking brake so that's out.


I can't tell you how much time I've spent looking at Subaru options for the rear. Those guys had to overcome the same difference in parking brake shoe diameter as I am. Godspeed makes 170mm shoes with thicker material to adapt the STI rears. Or Brembo makes a conversion rotor that uses STI specs but has a 170mm shoe bell. But those are 5x100.

I'm pretty set on the Supra rotors or the ISF rotors for the rear. I'm going to do some research into a shoe conversion and I'll post what I find.
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Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby Cuttyman9 » Mon May 05, 2014 3:36 pm

I dislike the drums for parking brakes, after learning the backing plate is the bracket for the stock brakes ill just ditch all that and run the wilwood stuff. The only way I'll retain any of that drum stuff is if the larger drum layout from a supra bolts to the car which I doubt.

This way I can use the milled down(so it doesn't say nissan) 300zx rear caliper pair and the wilwood's and be done with any rotor i want off a multitude of vehicles, maybe 2 piece if I choose correctly.
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Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby bajallama » Mon May 05, 2014 6:16 pm

Well i hope you guys get your projects done.

Has anyone been able to verify the sc300/MK4 rear caliper bolting up to the 165/185?
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Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby ALLensTRAC » Mon May 05, 2014 8:08 pm

As GT4-Dred said the 205 caliper bolts to the sc300. This tells us the pattern is the same. I believe all the info saying it doesn't comes from the fwd guys trying them on their cars. Our calipers bolt directly to the spindle. Theirs bolt to the backing plate. The kicker that I want to know is if they will bolt up with the increased depth of offset for the MKIV rotor. I will find out when I order the calipers and rotors but that will have to wait until I can get the parking brake figured out.

As for my project getting "done" that isn't happening anytime soon lol!
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Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby Hotrodhendrix » Mon May 05, 2014 8:26 pm

I havnt been on in awhile and come back to this. Glad to see another owner with an engineering background. More of you guys are on here the better! :D

I might end up doing the rear on my alltrac like this and the front and rear on the wifes. Thanks for posting all the info!

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Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby Cuttyman9 » Mon May 12, 2014 1:52 pm

Haha I've found that ive met many engineers in the Toyota hobby.
Good to know I'm not alone.
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Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby bajallama » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:00 am

Little update, brakes are amazing. Stops like it should, just need to get working on fixing the rear.

Here is the excel sheet I promised:

http://www.projectz61.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/AllTracData.xlsx

*Warning* I am an engineer but I'm not perfect. I tried my best to review the equations in the sheet, but I may have made mistakes.
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Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby ZeroDrift » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:34 pm

Nice excel sheet. I will have to look into that a little deeper tonight.

Came across the LS430 rear calipers and noticed they are also radial mount. Now I've not looked into the rear brakes of this car, but if they do make use of a drum style parking brake mechanism- this caliper should work nicely.

Any progress on setting up a group buy or selling some the a technical drawing of the caliper brackets? I'd like to start piecing a brake kit for my Trac' over time.
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Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby bajallama » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:08 pm

ZeroDrift wrote:
Any progress on setting up a group buy or selling some the a technical drawing of the caliper brackets? I'd like to start piecing a brake kit for my Trac' over time.


Yes actually I am working on getting the kits together now. I am ordering material and should have it all at the machine shop by next week. I will have enough for 10 kits atm.
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Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby phattyduck » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:09 am

Noticed one mistake on the spreadsheet, but it doesn't affect the final bias numbers - you should only be using the piston area for half of the pistons on opposed-pison calipers. Because both axles doubled their piston numbers, the bias calculation remains correct.

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Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby CTechBlueDragon » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:31 pm

I apologize I have not read this whole thing to see what you decided. Are these brackets going to be for 205 calipers on the front? I want a set if so!
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Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby bajallama » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:34 pm

phattyduck wrote:Noticed one mistake on the spreadsheet, but it doesn't affect the final bias numbers - you should only be using the piston area for half of the pistons on opposed-pison calipers. Because both axles doubled their piston numbers, the bias calculation remains correct.

-Charlie


So you assume its a 2 piston floating caliper (for a 4 pot caliper)? I thought that if the pistons have an area and the line pressure is constant, they each exert a force that is the same? The clamp force is a sum of those forces applied at the rotor and reacted by it (since you are compressing the rotor).

Orrrr do you mean that the stock floating caliper clamp force is multiplied by two? I can see that being a possible error.
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Re: Baller on a Budget BBK (BBBBK)

Postby MWP » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:47 pm

Anyone have experience with Cardone re-man calipers?
Finding LS430 calipers in Aus is pretty difficult, and they are expensive (ie >$400 for 2nd hand front calipers alone), so the Cardone re-man calipers at ~$150ea look pretty attractive.
Since im in Aus, i really dont want to get dud calipers and then go through all the trouble of shipping them back to the US, etc, etc.
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